streching ever day

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by JamieW, Aug 8, 2010.

  1. Patrick Smith

    Patrick Smith Tustom Cuser Uitle

    I agree as far as flexibility is concerned, but I don't think you can use isometrics for everything. Would you say that there are times when relax stretches are necessary?
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2010
  2. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    I say no. Other coaches say yes. Like any form of athletic training, it's personal preference really. I offer one way of doing it, which has proven successful for me and my clients alike. If you try relaxed stretches, and you feel there is a benefit, then crack on and do them. Same with dynamic stretches.

    Flexibility, strength, cardio... they're all similar in that there are multiple schools of thought and different methods for achieving similar results. I exclude relaxed and dynamic stretches simply because I have seen evidence first-hand of the damage they can inflict on soft tissue.
     
  3. Patrick Smith

    Patrick Smith Tustom Cuser Uitle

    Regarding dynamic stretches and the issue of micro-tears, heavy lifting/intense workouts also cause micro-tears/severe DOMS (or at least that's what I heard). Too much micro-scarring can cause stiffness and inflexibility (another thing I heard), but most high level coaches use tools like foam rollers, massage, and various other soft tissue manipulation tools to help recover from it (for myofascial release I think. It just seems that since dynamic stretches have been used very successfully by hundreds of other people, they can't be all THAT bad. Either way, I see what you're saying. Different methods, different people. And I'd rather try your method before going back to dynamic stretches twice a days... *groan*

    By the way, now that I'm 17, I'm going to start easing into isometric stretches. Woot! :woo:
     
  4. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    You're a very switched on guy and you grasp this subject better than most people. Never know, it might be you producing a book soon! Good news about the isometrics, good luck with them!
     
  5. fabrizio

    fabrizio Valued Member

    Isn't the stretching thread now irrelavant ?
     
  6. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Which stretching thread, Fabrizio?
     
  7. fabrizio

    fabrizio Valued Member

    The beginners guide to flexibility.

    From what I read, dynamic stretching and relaxed stretching is now a no no.
     
  8. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    So remove them from your training plan; pretty much the rest of that thread still stands.
     
  9. fabrizio

    fabrizio Valued Member

    Thanks.

    That only leaves isometric stretching. From your post you only have to do two isometric stretches. I don't really understand this because how can only two stretches make you flexible?
    Stretches need to be done in order and I could never get close to a side split with out having done 6 or 7 stretches before. The front split is pretty impossible for me at the moment.

    My relaxed stretching used to consist of 16+ stretches. Can you do this much with isometric stretching?
     
  10. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Isometric "stretches" have more akin with strength training (weight lifting) than they do your traditional stretches, whereby you attempt to literally elongate the muscle. You're not lengthening anything when you do isometrics, you're actually teaching the muscle to get stronger in the extreme range of motion. When a muscle is stronger, it feels safer, and thus resists less against unusual positions (such as the splits). The front split and side split are all you need because more than this would run the risk of injury through fatigue.
     
  11. Metal_Kitty

    Metal_Kitty Valued Member

    But in that case, shouldn't you be doing traditional stretches combined with isometric? Because if you have really poor flexibility to begin with, then wouldn't you need to lengthen the muscle as well as strengthen it?
     
  12. proteinnerd

    proteinnerd Valued Member

    Only someone that hasn't done them would get excited about the prospect of doing them :)

    I like the results from doing them, but damn! isometrics are hard work and no fun at all.

    But I do thank the stretching Gods that they decided we don't have to do early morning dynamic stretches anymore....
     
  13. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    I don't expect nor want anyone to just take my word for it. Try it for yourself. Do isometrics with relaxed stretches for six weeks, record your progress, then do them for six weeks without relaxed stretches. Record your progress again and compare the relative gains in ROM. I'm confident you'll find your gains were not only greater in the second half of the experiment, but that they were also quicker and you could display them better without a warm up. This is because my first hand research (yes, I have access to a sports lab) has shown that relaxed stretches have a negative impact on flexibility because they impair strength - and, as we all (should) know, strength is the key to great flexibility. You need to understand that flexibility is an indication of how strong you are within a range of movement - not how elastic or how long your muscles are. Changing perceptions is actually one of the harder parts of my job! :)
     
  14. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    I forgot to add - if your flexibility is really that bad you feel relaxed stretches are necessary, focus on strength gains over ROM gains. Don't try to increase the stretch so much and instead tense harder, or longer, or both, in your isometrics. In time the increase in strength will translate into greater flexibility. You will know you are getting stronger because your legs won't shake as much during isometrics, you will find it mentally easier to do them (flexibility is as much about the mind as it is the body) and you will feel less resistance as you move through the ROM. I'll post a new thread later with instructions from my upcoming book about how to focus on strength over ROM. It's a great strategy for busting through those plateaus.
     
  15. Metal_Kitty

    Metal_Kitty Valued Member

    Thanks, that was very informative! I always thought elasticity was the key, not strength. I guess that's where I've been going wrong.

    My front split flexibility is not bad, but my side split is SOOOO terrible! I will try the isometric stretches and cut out the relaxed stretches for a few weeks and see how it goes.
     
  16. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    I personally wouldn't cut them out entirely. They have their place.
     
  17. Patrick Smith

    Patrick Smith Tustom Cuser Uitle

    I definitely agree! Although I have done them in the past, I had to stop because of the risk of injury.

    Me too! :hail:
     
  18. gcollin

    gcollin Banned Banned

    Please explain, I have been having trouble stretching, I usually stretch a little bit and gradually push myself farther. But what do you mean warm up?.
     
  19. Patrick Smith

    Patrick Smith Tustom Cuser Uitle

    By warming up Matais most likely means raising general core temperature, joint rotations, and maybe jumping rope for a few minutes.

    Here's the thing, though. I think the pre-stretching warm up is unnecessary and does not help to prevent injury (at least as far as relaxed stretches are concerned). I think it comes down to the SAID principle (Specific Adaption to Imposed Demands), if you warm up to stretch, you'll need to warm up to be stretchy.

    I read an article about this not too long ago, and the author mentioned that coaches were beginning to stretch cold instead of warm because when you warm up, the muscle lengthens (although I feel inclined to say that it's the stretch-reflex that just feels safer), and then after you stretch it tightens up again. According to the author, stretching when cold reduces the post-stretching re-tightening.

    Van Zandt, I've been reading about PPS over at T-Nation and they recommend stretching (relaxed) like crazy (as well as foam rolling and certain strength and activation exercises). Do you ever use relaxed stretches to treat PPS or other hard to get at conditions?

    I can't remember if I asked you this already, but if I have, I blame it on the hectic college research and preparation! :D
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2010
  20. JamieW

    JamieW Valued Member

    Could i asks. whne you do the side splits what is the correct method for tensing??, iv bin sort of pressing my legs to the ground, but my legs shake. what is the method for tensing with the front splits too ?? thanks
     

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