Stomping and Slaping

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by Shou Tu, Jul 9, 2004.

  1. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

    Well, I started asking and got a wide variety of answers. I think the answer really depends on how deep your experience is and knowledge of Kenpo and the body dynamics.

    I started a thread and it got referred to another thread, that second one has some very deep info on there about body alignment, mostly by a guy named Dr. Chapel. Doc Chapel is often controversial mainly, I think, because he has a deeper understanding of EPAK than most anyone alive today, and that bothers a lot of people.

    So go read this thread and the one linked to inside it.

    I can try to summarize - the self-slapping can be a way to help align your arms correctly with the rest of your body as part of a strike, and can also provide some physical balance to motions of the other side of the body, thus helping with alignment and control of momentum (reducing stress on the body).

    Other people suggested it was an aid to timing of strikes, and this is probably true as well. At least for somebody at my level. But I don't think guys like Tatum and Chapel need that kind of crutch, so why do they do it?

  2. Shou Tu

    Shou Tu New Member

    Ok how about this, the slapping I still dont understand but the stomping might be explained in this fashion.

    Weapon before body, so as the weapon goes out, the step follows then the stomp is in training the over emphasis of the step to show the transfer of energy to the weapon. once the weapon makes contact the body should follow thus the stomp to show this.

    Just a thought since I have read a slew of responses that didnt simply explain this. I didnt understand it, but was told by a friend that is what the stomping is for.
  3. getgoin

    getgoin Idiot Savant

    Here is my take. Everyone has made a point into the reaction of stomping and slapping. This is the kicker, everyone has part of the story and everyone is right, you just have to put all of the info together. Alignment (not as a crutch), think of it as a racquet ball with a string attached that you control. When you hit a racquet ball onto a wall it come back at equal or greater speed. Now everyone here knows that nothing ever goes right when you hit someone, they don't move like you where taught they would. Now you can have control over the ball and where it goes. Secondly, grounding is used as a term for control. Everyone here (I am sure most of you anyway) have thrown a hook punch. You notice that it has great power because of its circular motion. Kenpo uses primarily circular motions to increase speed within the techniques, the faster you move the faster you can miss you target if not controling your speed, accuracy and timing. The other point that has not been addressed here is action reaction, if you look through kenpo material (not just one or two techniques) you will notice simultaneous strikes. The harder one moves out the harder the other one moves in. Stomping its pretty close to a boxer stepping in on his jab to create more power, setting your weight down into your strike.

    I personally don't like them and I try not to do them but I still find that I beat myself up as much, if not more that my training parteners. And I have learned over the years that no flooring stands a chance againts my stomps. I know this because it never hits back. :D
  4. kempo-kid

    kempo-kid Warning Dangerous

    It would if the attack wa to stomach 9

  5. Tigermoth

    Tigermoth New Member

    stomping is good

    most of the stomps in the kenpo techniques are where an actual stomp would be on an opponent ex. you scrape down the shin bone and stomp on their foot

    some of the slaps are to line up a strike ex. when you're in a headlock you find the back of their head with one hand and aim for your own hand with a punch (pow right in the kisser :eek: )

    some of the slaps are to simulate where on a strike you actually make contact ex. a looping block or rising strike

    in all honesty the slaps do help make a technique look and sound sharper and more impressive now having said that explain the slaps and stomps in kung fu because I don't get those at all
  6. Indestructible

    Indestructible New Member

    kenpo is kung fu.
  7. Kiyoshi's Dad

    Kiyoshi's Dad New Member

    Stomping & Slapping

    Beautiful Thread.

    as taught to me by a couple of Ed Parker's first generation Blackbelts...

    the STOMP is a "body drop". Imagine I can chop you in the trap muscle and I can move my hand at 30 mile per hour, it would hurt right?
    now if I lift and drop my 260lbs and make the chop and the drop at the same time, I have added my body weight to the chop and increased its striking power. I no longer need a huge wind up to make this chop powerful, just a few inches will do. (make sense when you actually try it).

    the SLAP is a position hand check or a rebounding strike. the hand check is a "just in case you try to hit me, I've already got my hand in place to block it" type of move. a rebounding strike will happen usually when you have a couple of targets in mind (like the temple and groin), if I stike you in the temple with a downward backknuckle rake, my fist might bounce off my shoulder as i pivot and do a hammerfist strike to your now exposed groin.

    we really don't practice slapping ourselves and stomping, it is a by product of doing a series of movements that we call (Self Defense) Techniques, at FULL SPEED. thats Kenpo. :woo:
  8. Shou Tu

    Shou Tu New Member

    And that was a good post but my opinion is below,

    Regardless of what the bouncing becomes or is said to do i still dont believe that is gives the strike more speed or power. I dont do this when i return a strike I circle it back and stop it at my cover area if its not going back out, and it fires from that position without hitting my body, using the recoil of the previous weapon and centerline shift and shuffle of the feet if it is going back out to the target. Weapon before body is what I have always been taught, not weapon before body then hit body to send weapon back out before body. If its not done during actual fighting then why teach it during (Self Defense) Techniques. I see it as wasting energy(as again noone on this thread could give the same answer as to why they do it). Why waste energy, why not econimize it to make it the easiest, more powerful way to do it possible.
  9. Tigermoth

    Tigermoth New Member


    :) Maybe it's one of those things like driving a stick shift. You can explain it and a person can watch but you can't understand it until you do it. And maybe we all expained it differently because there's more than one good reason for doing it. Believe Kiyoshi's Dad over me though. ( instructor ever..)(I'm not biased or anything.) ;)
  10. Shou Tu

    Shou Tu New Member

    I have friends that have taken or take Kenpo. They couldnt tell me, I didnt get why it was done in the demo clips and in person demos i have seen. Although Kiyoshi's Dad had explained things in a light that was probably easier to swallow and understand and Im sure that half the responses were Misunderstanding's based on what individuals thought I meant by stomping. I have tried the Rebounding, Tampolining, Recoiling stuff and Honestly it doesnt make my strikes any faster, It only maintains a constant speed and decreases in power over time.

    My opinion is that I dont see it working in the grand scheme of more power through economy of motion and energy. I have even heard sensory overload is the reason for slapping, hitting spots on your own body to unlock stuff within your body (Anybody got a cheat code for this one, i cant get the button combo to work.) Seriously that was posted on the MT Forum link provided earlier in this thread. Although All answers were and will be great im sure as someone had said before Only a handful knew why it was being done and those that didnt just did it anyway without asking why or where the hands were going just did it.

    Not taking anything away from anyone again i dont think it does all that it says it does. MHO
  11. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

    There is a great thread on this topic at MartialTalk. Here are some highlights form there...

    Did that help any?
  12. Shou Tu

    Shou Tu New Member

    i have passed this many times. One i have done all that is said in this thread, honestly it slowed me down from my normal routine. I understand the transfer of power with stomping (actually stepping after or as the strike makes contact).

    But that Slapping took on a whole new meaning. A meaning of nothing. you would think that if Kenpo was Ed Parkers baby that everyone that taught it would know what the slapping was for. Noone gave a simple lemans answer. so im my idea no one really knows and makes crap up as they go because the student liked the answer and kept it till a student didnt like it.

    The responses i have seen are like a SHOTGUN, Pull the trigger and go with the one that the most people responds positive to.

    I still dont know why you slap on the return.
  13. mekosho

    mekosho New Member

    lol, I have no idea why it is of my sensei's tell us to do this when we are working punch combinations and learning to build speed, he says he does it that way so his hands don't get crossed in mid flight...but, I think he just likes the kinda like wearing a thicker Gi in forms comp...makes that nifty little snapping sound that makes the judges go Ahhhhhhhhhh!!!!
  14. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

    I think your logic is a little faulty. I'm not saying I have the answer, but to say "I got a bunch of different answers and some were clearly wrong. THerefore there is no good answer" thats not logical. THe fact that it cannot be explained in a web forum message so that you can easily undertand also has no bearing on the actual truth of the matter.

    You should, of course, as best as possible on the internet, attempt to assess the source of each answer and then determine the credibility of that answer. Not all answerers are equal.
  15. Shou Tu

    Shou Tu New Member

    That is an answer ill take as making more sense that the other ones i have seen. It sounds good as others have said and that is one I can agree with.
  16. Shou Tu

    Shou Tu New Member

    of course since this last post noone has questioned or asked why its done.

    so let me ask do you as a student of kenpo Question everything you do. as to why am i blocking this way, why am i striking this way. ??????? what is it you pay for a technique so dont you want to know why you do it??????

    the last answer is agreeable but not acceptable. why do you stomp and slamp do you do it in a fight if you do you would probably lose.
  17. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

    Thanks for the suggestion (not doingthis in a fight because we would "probably lose"), but I suggest to you that you study reading, if you are still asking why we do it, you clearly need to improve your reading comprehension. Or, go to a kenpo school I guess... like I said above, some things can't be taught in 50 word messages.
  18. Indestructible

    Indestructible New Member

    When I took Shou Shu there were times that we used stomping. Specifically, while punching combined with mantis stepping. The theory, as it was explained to me by my shifu, was that by timing the stomp just before the strike makes impact, you sent energy down to the ground, where it would rebound up and into your punch. There was also a had full of times we were told to slap our chest while delivering a strike. This was done to increase focus to a specific area. The only problem was, that it usually led to people putting the slap into more than the particular technique that shifu had it in mind for. So, I can say I've seen both stomping and slapping in Shou Shu, but a lower occurence of either.
  19. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Well, I could not find or see the video that started all of this... but from the descriptions I believe I can say something about this.

    I know some schools teach the slapping and stomping as the basic way to do the technique, others schools don't. They are just variations of the same techniques, whatever is the preference for a teacher is what is usually taught first.

    Before and after a forearm strike, if it is taught to bring the hand back and slap the shoulder as described in the first posts in this thread, that is to get more power and snap out of the technique. The concept is that you are loading your arm up for the next strike, like a gun always ready to fire because the bullet is chambered. You do get more power out of that particular technique if you can bring the hand back past your center and to on front of your shoulder.

    I prefer not to slap the shoulder, I usually just bring the hand back to just past my centerline. But I am doing a variation of the technique, one that sticks more to the opponent and slides across them rather than the one that snaps back.

    My teacher learned the slap the shoulder before a forearm strike from CHA-3 and so I was taught it. We both don't use it as the preferred technique, but when the hands start moving really fast, sometime it comes without thinking about it, it just feels right to do it in a situation, so it happens.

    The stomp, as mentioned, could be an attack to the leg or foot of the opponent along with shifting/dropping weight. One of the principles of Chuan Fa is to overload the senses of the opponent by hitting them in so many places very quickly as to overwhelm them, cause their brain to shut down and leave them with no defense. Combinations of strikes are very abundant and each strike sets up the next, kind of like playing human pinball. :D
  20. kenpoist

    kenpoist New Member

    Kenpo is something you have to experience - it takes a truely talented instructor to relay the scientific princliples in laymans terms. I have read the Infinite Insights Into Kenpo several times and it still remains difficult to grasp.
    Ed Parker developed the principles just as if he work physics professor using scientific terms to describe his art. Just like studying science in school, some of us can understand the theory and some do not. For me, I need to see something tangible before I can grasp it. Science and math were not my strong suit in school.

    The reason I use slapping (and it just come natural after you have been studying for a while) 1) keeps my arms in check - we use the 180 degree principle, if one hand is out striking, one hand needs to be back checking 2) rebounding my power into a strike - you would have to see it to understand the mechanics 3) to hold back the power on a strike when practicing with my fellow students - obviously I can't deliver a raking back knuckle to the temple at full power, so I slow the stike down with a check or slap.

    I am no expert, but I have studied several different arts and I really enjoy the practical/self defense aspect the Kenpo offers.

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