Stealing the technique

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by TRK, Feb 9, 2010.

  1. TRK

    TRK Valued Member

    I am (for the first time) following that advice that every noob gets on this forum when they ask what art to choose-I am trying out different schools and styles to find what fits me. I've been training for a while, but I am looking in a completely different style from my background. Right now I am halfway through a month training at a school and have decided to leave at the end of the month. I have been thinking a lot about what is bothering me about this school and, to a certain extent, bothered me about the last school I trained at.

    When I was training in Aikido, people expressed the idea that you are there to "steal the technique." It is not that the instructor is expected to spoon feed you the correct movements, but that you are expected to observe keenly and figure it out, by watching it done well, then doing it yourself and trying to do it yourself. This, I think, is indicative of a very traditional Japanese style of training. Many more modernized styles, often (in my experience) styles where the teacher is using the school as his or her primary source of income, do a lot more explaining.

    I believe this loses something in the teaching. Part of what I believe I learned in the more traditional style of teaching is to observe intensely and see things more clearly than I did before. My experience in going to other dojos and styles where more verbal explanations are given is that the students are less observant and more inclined to blame the teacher, the style, or their training partner when a technique doesn't work the way it did when the teacher demonstrated it. That is not to say that you can't learn a martial art or to fight effectively in a context where the instructor breaks down techniques and explains each step verbally. But I think you lose one of those peripheral things that people always talk about as a benefit of martial arts training-focus and an intensity of observation.
     
  2. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I dunno. I think this view presupposes that there's a finite amount of "getting it" to be had. Like there's this set amount of wisdom, and you can either work for it or have it handed to you. Truth is that, no matter how much your teacher explains to you, there's always going to be nuance that you have to work out for yourself.
     
  3. TRK

    TRK Valued Member

    I think you missed my point. The benefit that I see is separate from learning the fighting part. In fact, I think it will probably take longer to master the techniques this way. I am talking about a separate skill that could probably be learned from close observation of a master of a variety of different skills. I am not trying to argue that I think one style of teaching is superior. They are different. I am arguing that a benefit of a more traditional Japanese style of teaching is the development of observation skills. It doesn't make you a more deadly fighter. It doesn't let you fly or balance on bamboo. It doesn't make you a mighty ninjer or an MMA champion. It is something that I appreciate about some of my teachers and intend to look for in the future.
     
  4. locust

    locust Like a biblical plague

    I dont think those skills are restricted to only T.M.A. Any self defence art worth anything at all, will allways tell you observation can be the difference between safety and harm and will continue to reiterate that for as long as you are a student, ie: Krav Maga.
    So when that is in the forefront of your mind everything they say or show you should be keenly observed.
    Just my opinion.
     
  5. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    Any teacher who tells you that he can give you everything you need is a liar.
     
  6. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    Hi TRK

    I don't teach for financial gain, but I do offer much explanation when teaching. So I don't think that difference in teaching style really has anything to do with money. If anything, its perhaps a reflection of different teaching methods between oriental and european culture?

    I think that the powers of observation you mention are very pertinent skills. No doubt the 'traditional' form of training can help develop that. For me however, I think its much more relevant to lay out the training material in a logical, systematic way - so that students understand what they're trying to achieve, how and why.

    Whichever method a teacher uses, it still inevitably requires the student to undergo much repetition. You can give the student the answers on a plate, but they must still digest them thoroughly in order to make use of them.

    Mike
     
  7. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I don't think I did miss your point. And if you think I'm suggesting one style is superior to another, you definitely missed mine.

    I'm saying that observation is a skill that's cultivated (or should be) by either approach. Because, regardless of how much explanation a teacher offers up, there's still a whole world of insight to be gained by observation and experimentation. Hell, a teacher would have to be all knowing otherwise, providing verbally everything there is to know about what you're learning.

    Realistically, that's not the case. And there is still plenty of cause for the student to cultivate their own powers of personal insight.


    Stuart

    EDIT: None of which is to say that you've got the wrong idea or that you're in the wrong place. If you've found a teaching style that you dig, that's terrific. Teaching styles vary. Learning styles vary.
     
  8. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I think some of it as to do with the language barrier. Many of the asian instructors coming west lacked the language to fully explain what they were doing and so settled into a look at me/do what I do approach. I'm not saying that's the whole picture but part of it I feel.
    Personally I like explanations. Martial arts are partly mental and I think a good understanding mentally filters through into the physical.
    Horses for course really. Some children do better with physical tasks, visual tasks, mental tasks, tactile taks etc etc.
    I don't hinks it's one size fits all from the teachers or the students perspective.
     
  9. Ace of Clubs

    Ace of Clubs Banned Banned

    Stealing the technique is very common expression in Japanese arts (not just martial arts).

    I think it separates instruction from transmission. It makes attending a class a privilege rather than a right.

    You are paying the instructor for being able to attend his class and watch him but you are stealing from him and making it your own.
     
  10. The Unholy

    The Unholy Banned Banned

    I lived in trained in Japan for about 15 years and last year moved back. Now I am teaching.

    I trained with the idea that I would have to steal the technique and that I was expected to figure things out on my own. I think it is a great way of learning.

    However, when I teach I do more explaining because I don't think my students are expecting to have to steal the technique. When I lived in Japan and spoke the language, the concept was known to me and I got used to it. I don't know if people who had never lived in Japan would be able to understand it fully and instead figure they were doing everything correctly unless I corrected them.
     
  11. pmosiun

    pmosiun Valued Member

    From my experience, the teacher can explain only so much, the rest would come by time and training of the student, the eureka moment.
     

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