Stance

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Tintin, Jul 20, 2002.

  1. Tintin

    Tintin Cats: All your base...

    After having this discussion with a couple of fellow Aikidoka, and finding some fairly varied answers, I thought I'd throw this open to everyone here on MAP.

    "What posture/stance do you usually stand when participating in randori/sparring/a scrap?"

    Most people so far seem to go along with the 'dominant foot back, body angled to give the opponent the least target possible.' idea. Does this not limit your options for avoidance/attack to 1 side only though?

    Personally, I try to adopt as neutral a posture as possible. This should allow easy 360 degree movement without committing to any particular subset of techniques.

    Maybe you leave an obvious weak spot (thinking here of the seven samurai - thay know the camp was going to be attacked, so at least have the enemy attack where you want them to.)

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. Silver_no2

    Silver_no2 Avenging Angel

    I can't really be very objective here as the only proper martial arts training that I have ever received comes from Tintin!!

    My tendency prior to starting aikido was to be going in with my left leg forward a bit so that I could throw a big right when the opportunity present itself. I now try and hold as neutral a posture as possible so that I don't limit my options. It also invites your opponent to hit you square in the chest, as you know where they are probably going to punch you have an edge.

    I've probably just said the same thing as Tintin but in different words but sod it. I had to support my Sensei! :D
     
  3. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    Stand with feet about shoulder-width apart, take one foot an plant the toe approximately in line with the heel of the other foot. Turn feet forty-five degrees. Bring up guard.

    That's how we teach it, but after a few times you just step right into it. Legs should be only slightly bent, and whole body should be relaxed, including the guard.

    Its a very dynamic stance, with a minimum amount of practice you can move around as much as you want, even circling behind people. It also makes it easy to slip and weave away from techniques.
     
  4. Spike

    Spike New Member

    When I do randori I try to keep my dominant side to my opponent because Aikido techniques seem to flow easier from there.

    In free sparring I tend to keep my dominant side to the opponent because my techniques are quicker from there.

    If i spot an opponent has a weakness or a penchant for a technique that he likes, I`ll try to let him go for it
     
  5. ladyhawk

    ladyhawk Valued Member

    That's what I call an oblique seisan stance and
    that's the same one I use only after I make my
    45 degree turn I slide my back foot back a little
    further, not much.

    You are faster when relaxed.
     
  6. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    That's what we call our stance. That's the only one we have, with a few transitional stances as exceptions.
     
  7. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Good thread TT.

    In sparring, we try to keep mobile all the time, and be unlimited by stance or posture. Sparring is a learning exercise, so we remain as open and inviting to attack as we can. The more attacks, the more we learn to deflect and counter.

    Taking Tintins lead;

    "Maybe you leave an obvious weak spot (thinking here of the seven samurai - thay know the camp was going to be attacked, so at least have the enemy attack where you want them to.)"

    The above is part of tactical sparring. By limiting an aggressors options it is 'easier' to anticipate their attacks, while less likely that they will occur.

    At the same time, we may wish to disguise our strengths/weaknsses, so we avoid.....

    "Most people so far seem to go along with the 'dominant foot back, body angled to give the opponent the least target possible.' idea. Does this not limit your options for avoidance/attack to 1 side only though?"

    .....anything which may restrict our options.

    In Lau Gar, we have stances which we use, but these are mainly for training purposes. It is easier to teach technique/application to a group, if everyone starts from the same point of reference. Training stances is also used for developing leg strength and tactile awareness.

    Stancework has value in understanding your own centre of Gravity and physical limitation.

    Andy
     
  8. Thomas Vince

    Thomas Vince New Member

    another long winded answer

    Stance should have a multi-purpose. By this I mean that your stances should not be just a posture. Just as your hands, elbows, knees and feet are used as weapons so should your stances be considered a weapon to trip, sweep, buckle, jam, sprain, dislocate and break the opponents kness ankles and leg bones.
    We use a variety of stances in Ed Parkers Kenpo:
    Attention Stance
    Modified Attention Stance
    Neutral Bow
    Forward Bow
    Reverse Bow
    Close Kneel
    Wide Kneel
    Front Twist
    Rear Twist
    and specific modifications of each stance. Each posture is designed for the martial artists to assume in order to keep the principles and concepts of martial arts working properly. They compliment both body and directional harmony, enhance the power of our strikes and compound the effects of the attack on the opponent. Parker's Kenpo teaches "multi-dimensional striking" which loosely translated means hit two or more targets simultaneously that are not in the same height zone. Multi-Dimensional striking must include the act of using the stance to create injury, deflect, redirect, jam, sprain, dislocate, or break the attackers action while you strike other targets. In this way we can effectively shut down the attackers ability to move up or down, side to side, or forwards towards us. Stance is the first and primary weapon of all advanced martial arts not just Kenpo, it is just that Parker Kenpo practitioners are taught to be more aware of the uses of the lower part of the body and that stances are the first weapon. Footwork is merely an ingredient needed in the recipe of target acquisition and vectoring and I believe it should be included in stance work as a transition point from one stance to another.
    Also, if your stances are good and you understand the transitions between say the right neutral stance (right foot forward feet at 45 degrees shoulder width apart, basically) than you know that the transition between the right stance and the left stance is a left forward or reverse twist stance. This knowledge teaches an awareness of power and vulnerability when moving from one stance to another. The best footwork and stance application I have seen is understanding this transition between stances. I must express that in Kenpo there is never a point where we are in a vulnerable transition because we understand from the very beginning the use of proper stances and thier applications as both weapons to strike with or to block motion.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2002
  9. Thomas Vince

    Thomas Vince New Member

    Quote:
    "Most people so far seem to go along with the dominant foot back, body angled to give the opponent the least target possible.' idea. Does this not limit your options for avoidance/attack to 1 side only though?"

    I agree with Andy on this. Firstly that means you always have your strongest kick in the position that takes the longest to get to the target. Creates only half of a hemispherical awareness.
    Limits you to only long motion when using your strong weapons.
    And lastly leaves you in a weak side transition after the strong weapon is delivered and forces you to step back to your strong side. It is here that I usually find most practitioners weak and I attack when they try to put that strog side back again after a kick or punch has been thwarted off.
    If you are teaching students to practice this way, it is almost like saying to a man with no right arm that you can teach the most powerful right hook punch to anyone. There has to be options right Andy?
     
  10. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Thanks Thomas,

    You run out of options, and you better get ready to take a beating.

    Having gotten to know a little more about Kenpo from this forum, I know you guys are never dismissive of options, and I get where you are coming from.

    Never restrict yourself!

    Respect

    Andy
     
  11. Darzeka

    Darzeka New Member

    I try to keep my stance as normal as possible (like I'm just standing around chilling, shoulder width one foot slightly in front of the other,squared shoulders) when we start, from there move as they move. If they take a small step in either move into attack stance (really exaggerated normal stance, with back leg straight and front knee bent) and attack or step back, either into receiving stance (same as attack only backwards and with shoulders completely side on). I find I utilise a more shallow receiving stance as all I have to do is move out of range and this makes the transition to either a normal stance or "cat" stance (rear foot sideways, front foot straight, resting on ball of foot, heels almost touching) from cat stance you can either move stright into attack stance or back to normal.

    At all times I would be trying to stay relaxed and fluid in the motions. Having the normal stance with shoulders squared lets you defend in any direction and makes for swift and fluid motion in all directions.
     
  12. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    I prefer footwork, agility & mobility over any set "stance"
     
  13. KarateKid1975

    KarateKid1975 New Member

    I spar with my right side forward lately. I'm a front-leg kicker. My right side is more powerful, and my left is quicker, so I tend to fight with my left back to get the "quicker" rear-leg kicks in, and the powerful front leg kicks.
     
  14. Thomas Vince

    Thomas Vince New Member

    Yoda,
    When you take an opponent down what type of consideration do you give to the opponents leg slipping into your groin and causing injury as you take him down?
    In the mastery of the arts we learn to "set" quicker than the eye can blink and we move just as you have mentioned with mobility and footwork. Even a grappler has to center and direct the hips when he takes someone down.
    I have been working with a close friend of mine who is training with Rigan Michado ever heard of this guy? Just wondering.
    I love to grapple when I am full contact sparring and here in South Carolina they are holding the MMA full contact tourn which it looks like I am competing in, the problem is the time factor. I passed the prelims and can qualify, fought five fights against locals it was to easy, but I have a business to run in the mean time, logistically I don't think this will happen. I am not afraid to get my face or anything else messed up and I want to inlcude some Kenpo grappling methods in my next set of mpegs. Good talking with you, please answer the question on the groin entry on a takedown if you would please, always respectful....
     
  15. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Hi Thomas

    That depends on my choice of takedown. For most of the takedowns I use my opponent's legs are outside mine so they cannot "slip" between mine. Even on takedowns that rely on their being a leg between mine I am close enough so that it can only be a thigh at best that goes there.

    Of course - things can & do go wrong (sometimes you get the bear - sometimes the bear gets you) and yes, I have had an unpleasant crunch in the family jewels- but nothing up to now that had stopped me from gaining positional control, taking a breath & carrying on with the action.

    Rigan Machado? LOL! Yep - I've heard of him :D
     
  16. Thomas Vince

    Thomas Vince New Member

    Now I know this is a public forum so we should not talk about him personally but we can be open and honest about his style, tell me what you think.
     
  17. khafra

    khafra New Member

    You couldn't sidestep as quickly still, of course, but how about a strong side forward stance? (I mean, Bruce Lee got something right, didn't he?)
     
  18. Darzeka

    Darzeka New Member

    I did an interesting excersise last night to do with balance, footwork and momentum.
    This is best called dancing
    Grab hold of your partners Gi on top of one shoulder (left hand on their right shoulder or vice versa) and they do the same. With your other hand grab the Gi under their elbow.

    Now you dance, just move around and feel how the body moves. Don't try to throw them, just move their balance around.

    I found myself with a bad tendancy to cross my legs over whilst doing this and will try to correct this but it is also a good way to learn how the body will react to certain pushes, pulls and how best to position yourself to be most effective.

    We also did another excersise called "sticky hands" where you stand up with hands/forearms touching and try to get your partner to overbalance using the pressure of your arms, footwork to get into good position and control of the momentum while you are both moving. This is also good for learning how to get into and out of locks, create openings for strikes/locks/grappling and also for footwork.
     

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