sport or martial art or both?

Discussion in 'Judo' started by judojedi, Nov 26, 2003.

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in your opinion, is judo a sport, a martial art or both?

  1. sport

    10 vote(s)
    17.2%
  2. martial art

    11 vote(s)
    19.0%
  3. both

    37 vote(s)
    63.8%
  1. judojedi

    judojedi Officer of the Crown

    read the thread 'judo TMA or MMA' before voting on this poll.

    if you can find the time please state wether you practice judo and if so what grade are you and for how long have you studied.

    this poll will probably go against what i think, but i would like to know peoples thoughts on this. cheers
     
  2. Adam

    Adam New Member

    I currently dabble in competition orientated judo.
    In my opinion, judo is more sport than martial art given the restrictions of the frankly very bad competition rules (one throw ends match, only locks at elbows are allowed)
    That being said, judo throwing seems to me to be a great weapon in the arsenal of any fighter or martial artist as they can be very damaging when done off-mat. So I class judo as a sport useful for fighting.
    This is of course just my opinion
     
  3. Sub zero

    Sub zero Valued Member

    it's not purely ment for sport or MA. So both for me.

    50/50 who's gonna chnge it?
     
  4. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    It's a sporting martial art :p

    I have no problem when people call something liie Judo, Muay Thai, Boxing, BJJ a SPORT.

    My problem starts when they call then "JUST" a sport as if contesting against full resistance takes something away when actually it enhances it.
     
  5. WhiteWizard

    WhiteWizard Arctic Assasain

    Why would it not be an MA it was developed as an MA okay some people compete in it but that doesn't make it a sport only
     
  6. judojedi

    judojedi Officer of the Crown

    my thoughts are, as you probably know if you read the tma/mma thread, is that judo is a sport.

    think about this, if its a self defence or a martial art why do we only learn things that are legal in competition, surley if its a martial art, then hand strikes, kicks, leg/wrist/ankle/nerve locks would all be taught aswell.
    maybe some clubs teach these things but its not judo. the training sylabus for AJA BJA and BJC only have techniques that you can use in competition (kata aside although form contests do exist).

    it seems to me that 'martial arts' has become a generic term for any fighting system. which is understandable owing to the trouble i've had trying to explain the difference between martial 'arts' and martial 'ways' and sports.

    how many owners of a fighting club would advertise their system as a martial way? it sounds crap don't it. no one knows what the hell it is or what the difference is to the much cooler sounding and highly commercial term of 'martial arts'.
    IMHO this is why you all think judo is an art, cos past judoka's, maybe your sensai or your sensai's sensai just couldn't be bothered trying to explain the difference or they wanted to say: ' I'm a martial artist' in stead of ' I'm a sports man or 'I'm a martial wayist' then have to explain the difference to confused student or confused someone else.
    when people ask me about my martial art i decline the opportunity to correct them as its a waste of time and just tell them about judo, however i make sure my class know the difference.

    this is my last post on the subject as its geting boring now, but i'd like to thank the people who have posted here and in the other thread as the judo boards were dead before this discussion came up.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2003
  7. Jim

    Jim New Member

    I voted 'both' but will qualify this by saying 'it depends on the instructor'.
     
  8. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter



    Whilst not a BJC man myself I have a friend who is a BJC instructor, I've trained at his club and at BJC seminars with him on several occassions and know this is not the case. They teach the application of their techniques from punches and kicks, they also have a couple of wristlocks in the syllabus.

    However, Judojedi, I urge you to think carefully in your response as we don't want another thread locked like the last one.

    Col
     
  9. judojedi

    judojedi Officer of the Crown

    freeform, was the other thread being locked my fault?

    i'm also an instructor in a BJC club. i know of no wristlocks at all apart from the ones i learned in taiho-jutsu.
    we only administer our techniques from punches and kicks in kata, as punches and kicks dont come up anywhere else in judo (our judo anyway).

    my sensai, as well as teahing his class judo, also incorporates 'self defence' from time to time. this is basically techniques from taiho-jutsu that he thinks would be helpful for his students to know: escape from headlock, release from choke, blocking/deflecting strikes and of course kote gashe (generic wrist lock). maybe your friend incorporates non-judo techniques into his classes/seminars aswell?

    do you know the names of these wrist locks that are on the syllabus your friend has? do you know if its a BJC syllabus or his own.
     
  10. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter



    To be honest I don't know as I only see him from time to time these days, I'll try find out for you.

    Although kote gaeshi, kote hineri and theres a third one whose name escapes me right now are in the Kodokan syllabus, if you've got Syd Hoares Ato Z of Judo they're in it, they may be in Kano's Kodokan book but its been a while since I looked at it.

    Col
     
  11. judojedi

    judojedi Officer of the Crown

    :eek: oh really!

    i'll have to have a look at that AtoZ of judo, i'll ask farther christmas for it.

    pretty sure they're not in the kano's book but i will check at lunch time.
     
  12. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    Only 3 though, and he does say (and I paraphrase)

    "Wrist locks are a study unto themselves, exponents wishing to learn wrist locks should take up Aikido, a martial art that specialises in them."

    The A-Z is a good reference book, used with Kano's book I feel you've got method to 'learn' techniques (as far as you can learn them from a book).

    The good thing with the A-Z is that it includes all the techniques that are banned in randori, like kania sami and daki age.

    Col
     
  13. judojedi

    judojedi Officer of the Crown

    well i cant find any specific wrist locks in the kodokan but i've only had a breif look through. they're not listed in the index.

    the kodokan does have (to my amasement) kicks and punches, however they are under the 'health and first aid' section and are meant to be used for exercise and flexibility.

    about this AtoZ book, i have never seen it in shops is a new or old book?
     
  14. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    Pretty much everyone I now has it so it must be at least 10 yrs old.
    Apparently Kano died before he could come up with a way to safely incorporate atemi into randori and this is partly where Tomiki intended his aikido form of randori to cover.

    Colin
     
  15. Tosh

    Tosh Renegade of Funk

    I say both.

    Even if you took Judo on it's own as the only style to fight with it's still a fighting style.

    Certainly the argument is there that it would suck if you only played by sporting rules but none the less it is a martial way.... which leans heavily toward sport.

    Does fencing fall in to this category also?
     
  16. Terry Matthes

    Terry Matthes New Member

    I don't really think it matters. If Judo works for you call it whatever you want. People are too easily offended by things like this. Spend less time fighting over what it is considered (as it really doesn't matter) and more time sharing some more positive aspects of judo.
     
  17. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    A - Z

    A - Z

    Heres a good review I found.
     
  18. judojedi

    judojedi Officer of the Crown

    interesting.....i now must have this book.
    at under £10 it looks a bargain too.
     
  19. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    as Ads says- it's a sport useful for fighting, i.e. a martial art...
     
  20. morphus

    morphus Doobrey

    Of course it's both.
     

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