Sport Karate

Discussion in 'Karate' started by Shotowarrior, Jan 26, 2005.

  1. madfrank

    madfrank Valued Member


    This is perfect if you want to compete but no good if you want to defend yourself against a mugger etc in the street
  2. madfrank

    madfrank Valued Member


    Total generalisation and not true.

    KUGB went down drastially in numbers cos sherry and enoeda would not take on board ppl like geoff thompson revelations about how ineffetual sport karate was in the streets.

    or dillmans kata revelations that blocks in kata arent really blocks they were intended as strikes and the multiple interpretaiton rule of bunkai etc.

    and also the dawn of NHB made this no contact competition karate seem soppy.

    also Bill Higgins Bob Rhodes and the great Tery o Niell were al involved in publicised street fights were they got batterd by un trained people.

    And of course Andys never had a fight.

    Im not allowed to talk about the other revelation about Andy that came to light in the 90's.

    This is what makes KUGB less than it was claiming not naff advertising

  3. powerof0ne

    powerof0ne Valued Member

    oh my!

    You sound a lot like someone that tried shotokan but wasn't that good at it! Because someone gets into street fights makes them a good fighter? Is that Nakayama's fault that he never got into a street fight? What was he supposed to do, start one?
    I love this sport karate argument...this is an excuse that a lot of karateka that did crappy in "sport karate tournaments" use to try and justify why there karate is "better".
    A few months back I was training at a family's private dojo that took some type of pride that they did "Okinawan Karate" and not "sport karate"....funny thing was that I knew more Okinawan/Japanese karate terminology than they did, had more power in all of my techniques, and did ok as a teen in "sport karate" tournaments. I actually questioned the head instructor on how she would go into heiko and masubi because it was backwards! The way she blocked wasn't the way it's done in the art she was claiming to represent and she also incorporated chin-na techniques into her "okinawan karate"...suffice to say after she told me the infamous: "you did sport karate is why you do your blocks the way you do" I never came back to that dojo.
    I've been in a few street fights and god willing survived them, have fought in muay thai, sport karate, bare knuckle/knockdown karate but would never consider myself better than someone like Nakayama who supposodely never fought outside of a "sport karate" tournament.
    There are a lot of people worried that if Karatedo goes to the Olympics that it will be furthered watered down than how it used to be applied/studied. I myself am not sure what will happen if Karatedo does make it to the olympics and think maybe it's something that shouldn't be done just because the risk isn't worth it.
    Some things done in sport karate tournaments wouldn't work in a more "full contact" fight or in self're all right about that. The same goes for NHB/Muay Thai/Boxing...these are all sporting events that have rules but would definitely give a successfull practitioner an edge if they ever were in a street fight.
  4. Chruffin

    Chruffin Valued Member

    Actually, frank, it is.

    How are you supposed to defend yourself against an assailant on the street if you've never been in a combat situation (even a controlled one)?

    And now time for me to throw a controversial statement into the works:

    We are Martial Artists, right? As in we study martial arts... ie. We all study - or have studied - a combat discipline. Now while I'm not for a moment insinuating that this means we should take up every opportunity to test it, perhaps we should accept that Martial Arts are designed for a practical application. If all we do is traditional drills then how are we fully realising that aim?
  5. Gyaku

    Gyaku Valued Member


    Could you back that up, if publicised - where?


    Again, can you back that up?

    Its interesting that you have such a beef with Sensei Sherry, yet even Geoff Thompson writes with admiration about him.
  6. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    Uh.... how are you supposed to survive a full-contact confrontation against somebody you don't even know if you can't handle yourself against a competitor?
  7. madfrank

    madfrank Valued Member


    I dont have a beef with sherry.

    Or even what he teaches.

    I just dont consider him a martial artist in the sense that geoff is.

    in my meetings with andy he was always polite and friendly cant fault him there.

    im just saying he runs an organisation i dont feel prepares ppl for the street.

    but he has neve to my knowledge claims it does he is focused almost entirely on no contact competition karate.

    And even when i started martial arts as a kid i was never interested in competing only the street applications

    As to the claims i must be a mediocre martial artist as ive said so many times on here now, if you want to come and test that theory you are welcome.:)

  8. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    lol, Higgins and Rhodes got beat up in a Nightclub by a couple of bouncers. So from this we can probably assume they'd both been drinking, would the outcome have been the same had they been sobre? Unlikely
  9. NaughtyKnight

    NaughtyKnight Has yellow fever!

    Since when did a teacher have to fight in the street for their ma to be effective? Im sure most Military Comandos have never been in a street fight, but their combatives seem to be upto par. They train hard, sparing with eachother, have competitions and train as realistically as they can.

    I have a few friends that are in the Australian Army. They are excellent at combatives, though they have never been in a street fight to test it, they have won many competitions, and I would never cross them.
  10. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    Factual inaccuracy. Mr Sherry's organisation isn't a "sport karate" organisation. I haven't trained with Mr Sherry more than a dozen times but he's never taught any "get yer pads on and swat at each other" karate. It's always good, solid stuff. And his fellow teachers Mr Rhodes and Mr O'Neill are both pretty "applied" in their instructing.

    So the source of all your constant sniping about karate is just that it doesn't (didn't?) fulfil your requirements? If you are (were?) so unhappy with karate then why bother doing it at all? I've weighed up the pros and cons of shotokan karate and decided it suits me given what I require from a martial art. Surely everyone should do the same.

    Isn't JKA.
  11. madfrank

    madfrank Valued Member

    I'm not unhappy with karate I do the jutsu version as opposed to the Do version.
    That's my point there is a difference or else why the suffix change?

  12. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    Then you're happy and I'm happy and (hopefully) everyone else is happy with their martial art! Hooray!!!!!!!
  13. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Karate Jutsu is what Funakoshi called the art before he changed it to Karate do
  14. Shotowarrior

    Shotowarrior New Member

    [JKA is no contact competition karate pure and simple.

    And it is also a business.

    As nakayama said he was never given nor interested in bunkai ie the street fighting applications of karate.

    so how can it be a martial art?

    This is not true. The techniques are contact, however we cannot practice pure contact as, well it hurts. We do skin contact however in our free style Kumite we do contact. We practice true JKA which as I am sure you are all aware is very rare these days, I use Ki to strengthen my attacks when in a defense sittuation. Look carefully at JKA before you criticise.

    "Follow the Way with honor, and be like the nature of water"
  15. Shotowarrior

    Shotowarrior New Member

    [We? Are you a representative of the JKA leadership?
    No but to the true JKA follower we are concerned, I cannot speak for the leadership but we the followers of traditional Karate are.

    "Follow the Way with honor, and be like the nature of water"
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2005
  16. Shotowarrior

    Shotowarrior New Member

    [JKA very much standardizes their karate and makes changes in the name of aesthetics and competition. ]

    No they do not they change things to further develop the art but still keep with tradition.
    "Follow the Way with honor, and be like the nature of water"
  17. Shotowarrior

    Shotowarrior New Member

    [Right. I'm sure that the JKA is worried about karate becoming an Olympic sport. More likely, they're worried that they won't be in charge of it.

    How dare you insult the name and honor of the JKA worldwide. The JKA have no intention of being incharge of this farse that will be a competition in the Olympics. JKA would rather stick to its own tournaments.

    "Follow the Way with honor, and be like the nature of water"
  18. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    lol, if JKA were offered control over it they'd take it, if only to spite the other associations. The JKA are just as guilty of playing political games as every other Karate Association.
  19. Tommy_P

    Tommy_P New Member

    How about adding stances or steps to kata so that it can end on the same spot it started "for competition"? What is the bunkai for that?

    I'm not busting chops on JKA.........I'm a Shotokan practitioner and have been for many years but I surely don't have the blinders on. Shotokan is traditional, but within the context of their tradition.

  20. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Most Kata havn't been changed, Aragaki Sensei's Katas all finish on the embusem(sp?) but they havn't been altered. In general Katas are written to be like that because its a good way of testing yourself. You should always finish in the same place if you do the kata correctly, the embusem just makes it easier to judge

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