Split: Sayoc Kali

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts' started by EmptyHandGuy, Aug 20, 2008.

  1. EmptyHandGuy

    EmptyHandGuy Valued Member

    Split out from original thread 'First Eskrima Lesson' to discuss Sayoc Kali - Freeform
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 6, 2008
  2. Damien Alexander

    Damien Alexander New Member



    Sayoc-Kali.

    When you see their prices; slightly over rated.
     
  3. LabanB

    LabanB Valued Member

    Children/Sayoc

    Hi GB,

    The club takes children from 7-12 with a responsible adult, then they can train on their own.

    Damian,

    I'd disagree with the use of the word "slightly"!!! My main bugbear is that the system seemed to appear pretty much from nowhere after The Hunted was released. I'd heard very, very little about the system - this obviously doesn't say much against the system itself! - then all of a sudden here we have a full system with what looks a lot like pyramid selling structure.

    The prices on the website ($300 for a steel pen with Sayoc Kali written on it :-0) are very high for a system I know very little about. When they first came to the UK, it was for a seminar two weeks before Christmas, they charged £95 (down from their first suggestion of £100) and from what I've been told spent a lot of time teaching what appeared to be "urban warefare" craft to civilians.

    I haven't looked into the system as I won't pay the prices they want for the people involved until I know them better. The usual method is start off cheap so lots of people get to see how good you are, then up the prices. Not with Sayoc Kali it seems.

    Bill
     
  4. EmptyHandGuy

    EmptyHandGuy Valued Member

    Ok, thanks! so that discounts me then :hat:

    With regards to the Sayoc Kali, they do seem to get a lot of good support from the likes of Dan Inosanto, but then they do charge an arm and a leg for stuff. Do you think that maybe the "we've been in the movies so are great" thing has gone to their head and that is why they are charging so much.
    I mean who pays that much for a pen, even a pen with Sayoc Kali printed on it :bang:
     
  5. LabanB

    LabanB Valued Member

    Sayoc

    Hi GB,

    Yeah, I got the impression from the advertising for the system ("As seen in The Hunted") that the prices were trelated to the Hollywood connection.

    As for support by Guro I - I acnnot say whether ther system is any good or not as, stated previously, they are charging too much for me to find out. I've seen lots of people pull the old "we must be the best, look what we charge" game before, so I'd like to see what they've got at a reasonable price before jumping headlong into the game.

    Bill
     
  6. Damien Alexander

    Damien Alexander New Member

    Hey Bill,

    Nice use of discretion ;-)



    Sayoc basically takes it roots from the Pekiti system,but then they have succeeded in complicating a complicated system.

    Back in 04,I was looking into what they had going and when I read that one of the "Tuhons" charged $8000(yes, $8 GRAND) for a weekend seminar,not to mention the host STILL pays for transport,hotel and all other ammenities(the dude didn't even bring his own kit!) I decided they can get ..... you get the pic :evil:


    Now, if you are looking for good hollywood choreography; you can still find it cheaper elsewhere!
     
  7. EmptyHandGuy

    EmptyHandGuy Valued Member

    Is there only the one instructor for this style in the UK? That being Krishna Godhania?
     
  8. LabanB

    LabanB Valued Member

    Guro I/Sayoc

    Hi Damien,

    Discretion is the better part of valour...!

    Hi GB,

    As afr as I am aware, Krishna is the only fully acreddited instructor under the Sayoc banner in the UK, though there may be other "associated" instructors.

    The deal appears to be, you get yourself accepted by one instructor within the Sayoc family (this means you host him and show you have the cash/student base to make more money), he then gives you permission to act as his/their rep in your country/area. It may be more complicatd than that. I don't know for reasonsa lready explained.

    Bill
     
  9. EmptyHandGuy

    EmptyHandGuy Valued Member

    Another great lesson tonight!!! Both myself and my friend Ritchie really had a great time and he's looking forwards to next week.

    I remembered the tai chi instructors name, Mel Richardson, he teaches in Eldon Square on a Saturday Morning and at the gym that I'm a member of on a Thursday evening.
     
  10. mick shore

    mick shore Valued Member

    regarding sayoc kali

    hi bill, thanks for the plug earlier on,i was really enjoying the thread untill the sayoc bashing ,I also represent sayoc kali in the uk as an apprentice instructor for the north.krishna godhania sponsored me as an instructor ,i attended sama sama in the usa where i did my gradings.everyone i met was highly skilled and shocked me with their in depth knowledge and as you know i have been around filapino martial arts for more than twenty years and have seen a lot of good people in action-i dont impress easily,I was shown freindship as well as techniques.i have also been offered tuition for free when times were hard and just told to turn up and that money wasnt the issue.
    Tuhon tom kier is very skilled and well worth the money,i suggest you go see him on seminar when he comes back to Guro krishna,s in november.as for myself bill, if money is the issue i am only a short journey away ,come over to a free class,i always speak straight up and if i was getting ripped off id tell you straight.I do have guro krishna over once a year to teach sayoc and warriors ,i train on workshops and privates when i can and have always got full support on seminars and have never made a loss.I have known krishna since the early ninetys and hosted him on seminars fairly regular in leeds and doncaster over the years,he also finds the sayoc systemn highly evolved and full of interesting methods.
    I first heard of sayoc before the hunted through Guro mark wiley who told me about Tuhon chris sayoc ,he also mentions sayoc kali in one of his books.
    anyway, thats my take on things so far with my experiences with sayoc,give me a call if you ever want to come over and train,you are always welcome regards- mick shore
     
  11. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    The Sayoc's have been around for quite a while now, I first met Chris Sayoc in Cebu way back in 1992. What they charge... Well that is up to them and if someone see's value in it then it is money well spent in their eyes.

    Just because someone is expensive does not nessisarily mean they are good, but it also does not mean they are bad either in the same vain as just because someone is cheap does not mean they are bad or even good.

    We could on the other hand say that because someone charges only a small fee that they are no good as the price tag is low could'nt we.

    It is not the pricetag that is important, it is the knowledge and skill of the instructor that is important.

    Their are systems out there that I personaly would not agree with some of their methods of training, that does not mean they are not doing it right, it just means they are doing it differently to me.

    What is one man's food is another man's poison.

    Just my thoughts

    Pat
     
  12. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Agree with Pat. Also worth noting that, while the Sayoc brand name might be relatively new, the knowledge and experience that feeds into it are much older. I met the Sayocs back in the early 90s, and they were already very well regarded in FMA circles at that time.
     
  13. LabanB

    LabanB Valued Member

    Hi Mick, et al

    Hi Mick,

    >hi bill, thanks for the plug earlier on,i was really enjoying the thread untill the sayoc bashing <

    As you say later Mick, just saying things as I see them!

    >I also represent sayoc kali in the uk as an apprentice instructor for the north.<

    I did say that I only knew of Krishna for certain, so no disrespect was meant. I'm sure you know that, though :)

    >Tuhon tom kier is very skilled and well worth the money,i suggest you go see him on seminar when he comes back to Guro krishna,s in november.<

    I may do, now my new job is kicking in with the pay!

    >as for myself bill, if money is the issue i am only a short journey away ,come over to a free class,<

    I will take you up on that, once I get used to the long hours I'm doing at the moment. No point coming down tired and missing out on the info.

    >i always speak straight up <

    Aye, coming form the North has that effect ;-)

    >anyway, thats my take on things so far with my experiences with sayoc,give me a call if you ever want to come over and train,you are always welcome regards- mick shore<

    Fair enough Mick, and as I said earlier, I will take you up on the offer once the job settles down.

    Hi Pat,

    >What they charge... Well that is up to them <

    Again, as far as I could see, and others felt the same way, the Sayoc brand appeared after The Hunted with high prices without the proven skills to back them - proven that is to the m.a. world at large, rather than to a small number of FMA groups/instructors.

    >We could on the other hand say that because someone charges only a small fee that they are no good as the price tag is low could'nt we.<

    We could...but I feel that too many instructors charge high prices in the hope/belief that their students will accept that they must be getting good instruction due to the high prices being charged.

    Hi Stewart,

    >I met the Sayocs back in the early 90s, and they were already very well regarded in FMA circles at that time<

    In the US maybe, but pretty much unheard of in the UK at that time. Again, the overall impression most people in the UK got was they were cashing in after the film.

    Bill
     
  14. EmptyHandGuy

    EmptyHandGuy Valued Member

    Maybe a seminar could be organised with Mick to see what Sayoc is all about? Or even just come down to a class and see the art in action? I'm a complete newbie to all things kali/eskrima/arnis but I'm sure everyone can learn something new from someone, even if it's just seeing how someone else approaches a similar art from their point of view.
     
  15. LabanB

    LabanB Valued Member

    Workshop/seminar

    Hi GB,

    Now thats not a bad idea.


    Mick, if you are reading this, I'll give you a call over the weekend about a workshop.

    Bill
     
  16. EmptyHandGuy

    EmptyHandGuy Valued Member

    Whey hey!!! I came up with a good idea!!! A workshop sounds great.
     
  17. LabanB

    LabanB Valued Member

    GM Guba

    Hi GB,

    We do, of course have GM Guba up in a couple of weeks, so hopefully you'll get to meet him!

    Bill
     
  18. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter


    Well sure. But the name Sayoc was well established in the US and the Philippines. When I met them, though, they were associated with Pekiti Tersia. The "Sayoc Kali" name didn't come around until much later, by my recollection.

    I guess I'm a little unclear on how they were "cashing in" after the movie anyway. They choreographed it. People loved it. And they charged what people were willing to pay. Isn't that just free market economics?


    Stuart
     
  19. Peter Lewis

    Peter Lewis Matira Matibay

    Hi All

    Although this thread has clearly wandered from the topic of the First Lesson of a student of Bill Lowery, the comments about Sayoc Kali are interesting.

    As the former most senior student of PG Krishna, I was involved during the introduction stages of Sayoc Kali to the UK. I am with Damien on this one in that the techniques seem overly complicated and even dangerous to the defender. This was one of the deciding factors in my leaving Warrior's Eskrima in favour of Bakbakan Kali Ilustrisimo. The Tulisan sub-system of Bakbakan Kali Ilustrisimo is very direct and economical.

    Gumagalang

    Peter
     
  20. EmptyHandGuy

    EmptyHandGuy Valued Member

    It has kinda drifted away from the original topic but has opened up a whole new area of discussion that I am finding very interesting. As a beginner I am soking up all this new info like a sponge, eskrima is just so different to what I have studied before and I'm like a kid in a sweet shop, I don't know what to bite into next for a taiste!
     

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