Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by BGile, Mar 5, 2007.

  1. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Hi Kempofist,

    By your own account and explanation, I am hard pressed to see why anyone who wants street application fighting would want to spend more then 10 percent of their time on the ground. I would say most would want to learn submission standing and learning to get back to the fighting stance or not being able to be taken down in the first place.

    I see the training I have received and directed by LEO engagement and other (MMA that I have directed myself to attain) fighting arts, as being superior to the application outside of a ring. IMHO...

    I believe if you had the current rules of engagement in the ring back when BJJ came into vogue, it would not have lasted very long. They have changed more than the others IMHO... Chuck and Randy (pit fighting) have shown that to be true IMHO.

    Kosho has been, always, of that opinion as long as I can remember. Same with Tracy's (that is common among the 2). The two are very similar in most things. Same page different sentence or paragraph. This is not only based on their teaching but that taught by EP Sr..

    What was really revealing was the class that was put on by EP Jr (Doc Chapel teaching) and his people. That person is now involved with GM Mike Pick (very famous EP Sr. advocate). Sean Kelly.

    The Okinawan that was brought into the Kosho was in honor of others, and the fact that Mitose did not have a very complex art regarding Kata and other items for promotion.

    That was very clear cut when I went to the Chow Memorial and observed the various groups showing the things they did. Age and experience are valuable tools, especially, if all you want to do is observe. :cool: If you get my drift :D


    I placed this on a different post about Kali but it is very appropriate here IMHO


    Last edited: Mar 12, 2007
  2. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    I don't train for self defense any longer. In my opinion (and this is only my opinion and should not be taken as me saying more than that) I have outgrown such a notion in training as it is unhealthy to be obsessed with such things. I train strictly because I enjoy the style, the competition, and the people. The ability at handling myself on the ground in a real altercation is just a side effect, as it should be (IMO).

    As for your thoughts on efficient time spent for SD purposes, I'd say a good 30-40% of ones time should be spent on the ground, 40-50 standing/in the clinch, 5-10% multiple attacker drills and sparring, and a good portion of time spent on discussing and learning situational awareness, diffusing situations, being able to read a person's intentions, spotting all possible exits, discerning who's friends with who as to not get caught blindsided etc...

    Standing submissions can be effective, but only really in diffusing a potentially violent situation, rather than stopping a violent situation already in progress.

    Not sure how to read this. You mean it works better in real life situations, as opposed to its practicality in safe environments such as sparring or competition? Or that your LEO training to be more practical for SD purposes than "ring arts" or Sports MA that you've experienced?

    That MMA with old school no rules would leave BJJers not lasting long against well rounded fighters like Chuck and Randy? I'm having difficulty reading some things the way you write it, so please forgive me for asking for clarification. But if that's what you're saying, pure BJJ stylists already can't handle this new breed of well-rounded fighter, even with safety rules in place.

    What about them was shown so clear? Their assessment of what goes into street self defense?
  3. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Join the crowd bro.
  4. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Kempofist mentions:
    I'm having difficulty reading some things the way you write it, so please forgive me for asking for clarification.

    I'll say,
    It has been mentioned many times about my way of the written word, no offense taken. :D

    But as far as clairification about BJJ...I am talking about the way BJJ came into its fame by laying there for a very long time and nothing happening, sort of like the Snake and the prey. But it is not that way now and it has hurt the Grapplers who don't have a good basic ability to be a striker. Unless trained in it and just part of the whole sum.

    Striking is a very complicated art not many are really good. The ability to hit a base ball is similar to how I'd compare good strikers. One in four as a connect is not a good rate in my opinion. Why some are great and others just so so.

    Sure we can watch videos all day with compliant people but when it is two going at it, or more, it is a whole different ball game. :D

    The key is the movement of the body in motion and how one is able to control it.

    Back to a item mentioned in another post. How real is it when someone kicks in the back of the head or strikes you there and they can't :eek:

    So where are the street fighters going? To that area, just like the neck or the groin or take out a knee. Which is not that hard to do in real life situations and taking angles very quickly.

    Kempofist mentions regarding self defense,

    I have outgrown such a notion in training as it is unhealthy to be obsessed with such things.
    I'll say Ok to that, I can relate to what you are saying big time. LOL


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