Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by BGile, Mar 5, 2007.

  1. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    I'll reply further once I finish reading between the lines.
  2. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    I can understand your thoughts and opinions, but as far as it not fitting the example of a Kamon I'd dissagree. The Sake bottles from the CA vintner are not that old I would think, to be historical. It would be interesting if you could find some that are pre 1950.


    I was reading the book "The Masters Speak'' in it there is an interview of Thomas Mitose and he seems convinced it's real (system). His son is now the 23rd Descendent, or :confused: GM, I believe. It is a good interview and has some interesting information.

    The dates and times are interesting if you look at when the book (Mitose's)was written and when Sijo Emperado and Prof. Chow claim the origin of their systems and styles (year).

    So it can go either way depending on who is telling the story. This is one of the reasons I have started this thread.

    Yes it is repetitive for some, and others it is new information. It will be interesting when Thomas Mitose revise's the book, sometime soon I have heard. He mentioned to me that they were working on the pictures to make them clearer.

    Last edited: Mar 7, 2007
  3. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

  4. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

  5. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

  6. Matthew Barnes

    Matthew Barnes Valued Member

    Ahhh, 1933. It was a very good year.

    I think you may want to take a gander here.. In their profile, they talk about a certain product launch in 1933 in Japan.

  7. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    They were probably serving "Sho Chiku Bai" sake on Mitose's boat coming back to Hawaii in 1936.
    Maybe Mitose even served it in the brothel he owned.
    Ah, more ancient mysteries revealed.
  8. RevIV

    RevIV Valued Member

    Matt or Mr. Bishop, I was told that a Mon was not to have body parts on it. Would either of you happen to know if this is true. there are 2 words that keep getting used as if they are the same --Mon and Crest-- When i think of a crest I think of European coat of arms which def. had body parts and animals. But i have seen Japanese Mons and they are much different.
    Thanks in advance.
  9. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned


    This is the kind of information that is important. It is a trifle and many trifles are in the background of this particular person (James Mitose).
    Thank you.

  10. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    There is a good possibility what you are saying could be true, even if in jest, it may be a fact :) I am not that unreasonable, when facts and not opinion are put forward. Similar to yourself we investigate, and try to come up with the truth.
    At least I believe it (truth) anyways. Matt has done so much to prove or disprove and in time the trifles will outweigh the rest of the story.

  11. Matthew Barnes

    Matthew Barnes Valued Member

    Thanks Gary.

    I hadn't thought to look for it until you mentioned it. Thanks for the suggestion.

  12. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    I haven't heard that, but it is very possible, from what I've seen. I've seen hundreds or maybe thousands of mons. And there are quit a few on differant internet sites. But I've never seen one with body parts on it.
    The one thing they all have in common, is simplicity. The are usually a circle with maybe a single flower, leaf, triangle, circle, etc in the center. If there are multiple symbols in the circle, it's still simple. Maybe three of the same symbols arranged together. Here's a few examples:


    Here's a more extensive description of Kamons:


    This is my maternal family's (Miyazaki) kamon:
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2007
  13. RevIV

    RevIV Valued Member

    If i had my digi camera here i would take a pic of my diploma from Prof. Kimo.. it has a Japanese mon on it that comes from his wife's side of the family and persmision was granted for him to use it. Thanks for the reply
  14. Matthew Barnes

    Matthew Barnes Valued Member

    Asai mon

    Found a copy online.Don't know why it's in yellow at this site.

  15. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned


    Looking at the mon of Bob Koga and the one you are showing, there must be some connection way back from the area for there is some similarity, (but I might be way off), since one stroke of kanji can be very different and no where near the same meaning. Just a thought that is all.

    I have heard by many that the mon or crest of Mitose is to complex to be Japanese, but then you have to wonder, he was Japanese, and he was raised Japanese and spoke it fluently. So where did it come from? A sake bottle and a dream while under the influence of the sake? :D

  16. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    Now that is a typical mon that adhears to the basic premise of a mon. Simple design, that usually pictures something found in nature.
  17. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    Basically, all of the 12,000 or so Japanese kamons are based on the original 350 designs. So there is a lot of resemblance from family to family.

    Your probably not going to believe me or him. But in 1987, Ed Parker told me that his brother, Joseph Parker drew the Kosho ryu crest at Mitose's request for the book.
  18. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    So it is similar to kanji and the basic strokes that are the root of the kanji, which are called "Radicals". Very interesting.

    Hmmm why do you think I would not believe :confused: :D :D

    Thank you for sharing that information it is valuable, and not something I have read or heard before.

    I have asked many about it but no one has mentioned that thought... It is something that sheds much light on why you believe in what you are saying for so long. I am sure there are other trifles that you have but this one is not a trifle, it is huge :D

  19. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    Amidst all this debate about crests and mons, can we all at least agree that Mitose was a talentless con-artist turned criminal? :D
  20. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    If you add that he was a talented Martial Artist who brought us kempo, and Professor Chow spread it even further and Ed Parker gave us AK for many to share and then Hanshi Bruce picked up the ball and made a touch down, I'll go along with that.

    Then we need to add the man who is still the head of a huge organization that is doing a great job, Sijo Emperado and of course Johnny Leoning and Sonny Gascon, who both taught Go Shin Jutsu, and who gave credit to "the fighting hand of the Buddha".

    The reason I mention that is, it is stated by Thomas Mitose the art originated in China and came by way of Koshogi monks. Who taught James Mitose.

    What do you think of that Kempofist? :D

    Gary :D

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