Kgirl: Spilt from other thread, stuff snipped So Jroe tell me more about your MA and how you practice. I have seen the Wing Chun dummies and I am intersted in how you use one and how you strike it or kick it and have you applied this to a real person.No one is trying to flame anyone we get a little defensive when we feel attacked hello it's human nature animal instinct if you will whatever. So tell me why you like your art and what made you think that it was the one for you. Do you have a Wing Chun dummie at home you use have you bought it or did you find the plans and build it yourself or are you planning on getting a dummie in the future?
Well he hasn't replied yet, so I will and I do know some stuff about them I have only used them to practice drills of blocking/striking in one movement(inner and outer gate, I think that is what it is called) but they are also used for conditioning your forearms and hands, and if you have the ones with the bar that you kick then for your shins or whatever area you kick with. I never got to practice on it that much, but one of the instructors had done a lot on it, and he could hit it VERY hard, looked painful lol. I'm not an expert on them(I think the chinese name is mook jong but I can't remember) so refer to Jroe
Thanks Chilu for taking the time to answer that. I 'd like to see someone using one that would be intersting. Now JROE tell me more about this Wing Chun art and if you have links or pics can you please post them?
hey hey, i was taking a nappy poo... i only left the planet for a little bit. i am to poor for a wing chun dummy though i'd love to have one and begin to learn the form i cannot. at the moment, i am injured from a shoulder tear and am reading alot and studying martial arts so i don't slack off to much, expecially wing chun. the wing chun dummy is more then just hitting it, it uses a form or a sequences of moves that you memorize to help do moves, build cordination, use two hands at once, increase speed, build muscles by repitition, and has many other useful purposes. www.wingchunkwoon.com is a good represnetative of our traditional wc under grandmaster william cheung. his website isn't up to date in my eyes as much as the other but its... www.cheungswingchun.com you might know some about him already. he was one of bruce lee's close friends and introduced him to ip man who taught them both wing chun. i do not doubt shou shu is powerful, you seem angry with me and its understandable. if you knew me in real life i am a funny person who likes to say things to make people laugh. apparently i made some people mad by this post. though i think some people turned it into something it was not... which was what else can us non shou-shu'ers talk about, and us not carring if it is effective or not. it wasn't a critiscism to shou shu, it was a critiscism that we shouldn't argue. why spend time fighting when you can spend time learning. i absorbed what i could from here about shou shu, and am interested in seeing it in practice against multiple opponents, but i'd rather discuss other things then watch people argue to eachother or bitch* that it is innefective or unrealistic. many should also realize that their own art forms may be effective against multiple opponents, but you should not provoke those situations. people who boast or intice themselves, often maybe a succesful failure. a true martial artist should not bring attention to themselves because it is not the point of learning their art. to counter-argue this, i would say online message forums are a very good place to argue, talk about such combat situations, and experiences. why? well martial arts planet is a good place to learn from eachother, not compete, and not really entice others. there is a difference from telling a drunk person at a bar you can kick their ass, and debating if you could online hehe. one should not be provoked when they are fighting, or they will not reach their true potential. i think i should stop before i get too off topic, i do that alot. anyways... geisha and others who are mad about the post, stop reading it. its not to offend others, why take offense? if people are trying to provoke ridicule or arguments, take them with a grain of salt and realize you can make better arguments by talking about your art (which you have in other forms), and not arguing over if it is a good topic for me to discuss and be interested in. there are several reasons i am not intersted in it and am. i am not because i know of no schools in wisconsin or even the milwaukee area that teach shou shu, but i love jkd and i have the same problem. on the other hand i am interested because we all have a fear of being attacked by multiple opponents and being jumped by a group of people. so... what would a better thing to argue about? "how to handle attacks by multiple opponents" which we already created a post of. maybe methods, reasoning, schemes could be explained rather then us arguing over why their art form is or is not the only form for defending against multiple attackers. shew...
Jroe: I am not sure where to get these, but at the kung fu place I trained at for a while, they had a couple of things that you put on a heavy bag with straps. It has plastic arms just like a wing chun dummy, but I am sure it would be a lot cheaper. The ones at that kung fu place were on wavemasters(a free standing heavy bag). Well I looked, and I can't find them sorry
good point, i have seen them too. did you practice on them and how efficient were they? it would be cheap if i had a bag haha. not until i move out from an appartment in 3 years after graduation can i get that kind of stuff though. parts they leave out are the leg extension for kicks, and the moveable arms. the moving arms are important for practicing lap sao and jut sao which are two moves that lunge your opponent in the direction you move them. bruce lee's fav move i think was lap sao (i might be spelling it wrong). it is awesome because if you do it properly you can throw the opponent with one arm into your other striking fist on the other arm.
I don't know if they are effective, I never got to practice on either type of dummy very much. It wasn't pure wing chun, it was an animal based style with wing chun in it. I got my wavemaster for $50 a neighbour was selling it at a garage sale, and we were driving home so I went over and looked at it and then bought it Do you know where to get the dummies you put on heavy bags at?
(thinking out loud here) yes let me look... http://www.gungfu.com/cart-htm/training_gear_training_gear_equipment_wing-chung-modern.htm 109$ attach mate, find it cheaper maybe on google.
Actually... Hi Chilu, Yes practicing on the WC dummy does have the side effect of conditioning your limbs and such, but it is used more for practicing your structure and footmovements. When you hit the dummy on any part, your arms and hands should not hit it with hard force. In other words, you're not really hitting with your hands or arms persay, but you are making contact with it with our hands which is supported by your elbows which in turn is supported by your body structure. To hit it hard like a boxer or karateka not the idea. When you watch many masters perform it, they are very relaxed when they hit it yet you see the dummy shake and vibrate profusely. Oh, and yes you're right, it is called Mook Jong. Please don't hit the dummy hard with your fists, it will damage it and not develope your internal hitting power at all. If your fist isn't damage and does get conditioned by hitting hard, then you just have conditioned fists, which doesn't mean your hitting power is getting improved. Best wishes. Viet
Wise words. I'm glad I'm not the only one that doesn't view a Jong as an opportunity to bash a lump of wood with the premise of conditioning their limbs!. I also believe that using too much force (especially with blocks) will compromise the practitioner’s centreline and structure.
i guess i should of been more distinctive of the benefits... but i know that it is not used to build up limbs by bashing it lol. i wish i could train on a mook jong because i want to learn the form, practice the moves, and become better at applying them when i have no-one to train with.... someday...
Geisha, use: the mook is used to train footwork and spatial relationships for added power in "inside" fighting (i.e. nose to nose fighting). how hit: as others have said, not very hard as is shown in the "kung fu" books in the catalogues. I often wonder who writes these things. I did have "wall bags" made to wrap around the body of my mook. Hired a tailor to make them and filled them with rice. how kicked: to the body and to the leg as if collapsing a knee, shin or back of the leg. mook at home: my sihing, who is a custom furniture maker, made mine. The body is light oak, the arms and leg are burled mapled stained very dark. Have yet to see another two-toned mook. Mine is in my basement gym. Several of my fellow students have put them in their garages (they are married and the wife will not allow them in the house).
jimmy, man, the "air mook" was tough to get used to! Glad I do though. Geisha, forgot, there's is a different version of the mook what we call a "portable". The portable does not slide back and forth but is fixed in position. It is far cheaper and thus what most of my fellows who are still in university use.
Yeah, I've lost my Mo Jong a few times Re. portable Jong - I've seen various DIY versions, from plastic tubing covered in wood patterned adhesive sheets, to a couple of pieces of bamboo tied together with string ..if there's a will, there's a way.
Lost? Absolutely! LOL! However, very important to do "air mook", "air knives", etc. For example, when I started the pole, I did not do the "air pole" enough. Give me a weapon right now! I believe I hurt my stance as my legs were not ready. To this day I believe my pole is the weakest of my forms.
My own style of Choy Lee Fut has many different kinds of dummies in the system, the most popular being the Ching Jong(Balance Dummy). http://www.woodendummy.net/chingjong.php As you can see its quite different from the Wing Chun Mook Jong. The Ching Jong has a moveable upper arm so grabs and sweeping strikes can be pracitised. Below is a link to a good site where you can see two small video clips of Choy Lee Fut and Wing Chun dummy forms in action. Just go the movie section and enjoy. http://www.chuskungfu.org/
Thanks for the links PantherFist. I was wondering at what stage do you start to learn Jong in Choy Lee Fut?
