Sparring and Taijutsu:

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by zenpokaiten, Feb 21, 2006.

  1. Kurai

    Kurai Valued Member

    +1

    I don't know about the Genbukan or Jinenkan, but more Bujinkan practioners need to take this stance, imho.
     
  2. ninjedi

    ninjedi Valued Member

    I'm not trying to make a case against "pressure testing."

    But are we all in agreement here that "pressure testing" and "sparring" are two different things?
     
  3. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    They both can be the same thing, but not always.
     
  4. MaxSmith

    MaxSmith Valued Member

    You're forgetting the toughest of them all...

    Brian Boitano!

    Even saying his name makes Chuck Norris cringe.
     
  5. Niinpo

    Niinpo 万変不驚 Banpen Fugyo

    Didn't God name his son Brian???
     
  6. Kframe

    Kframe Valued Member

    Actually your completely wrong. I did not want anything spoon fed. I had already acknowledged that at my level, there was no point in sparring or pressure testing.

    However what set off alarm bells, was the fact that guys with 2-3+ years in were not in any form pressure testing. What made it even more unnerving for me was HOW they were doing the kata. They were not moving through it with any real speed or power(to actually hit and cause discomfort). Their movements were smoother, but they were not using any more pressure then we were.

    Those 2 things, were huge red flags for me, and contributed to my departure.


    In case you missed it, ill say it again. I was fully aware and ok with not sparring at my level. It was the fact that dojo veterans were not pressure testing in any fashion, and were not moving through the kata with any real pressure that was unnerving.

    I also did not at any time feel threatened by the attacks in the kata. I did what I was supposed to do. However, In reality only the barest of slips would have been sufficient to deal with their attacks.
    So next time you attack someone, try actually getting their reasons for what they did correct.
     
  7. pseudo

    pseudo Padawan

    Food for thought.

    Who's responsibility is it to insure that you get what you want out of an art? The clubs? Or your own?

    Regardless of the reason you left, I hope your happy with your next endeavor. Just keep in mind it's not easy to find a club that offers everything that your looking for and it's your job as a serious MAs practitioner to fill in the gaps. Just my 2c.
     
  8. Kframe

    Kframe Valued Member

    I agree with you Psedu. I did ask at the beginning about randori was told they did it. I had asked about pressure testing and was told they pressure tested in the kata. However I found the opposite to be true.

    I was told that each BBT club is different and that many do pressure test and spar, when I asked about it on another forum. However, I should have listened to my gut.
     
  9. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    The problem is many clubs don't know how to do kata properly, look at the problems Pankeeki mentions he has noticed, and a lot of clubs you ask will tell you they are not like the rest.

    On top of that some places and I don't just mean BBT clubs will tell you they pressure test when what they really mean is they just sling some gloves on a flail at each other with no consideration for the material they learn.
     
  10. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank


    Apparently he was just a very naughty boy.
     
  11. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I know that this is not sparring, but occasionally we do these kind of exercises, kind of like isolated drills

    This drill is as follows:
    - The attacker grabs and punches/kicks however they like, but in this example it's at low power as we didn't have gloves
    - The defender can only lightly defend (no hard strikes or blocks which make things much easier) and can only apply a particular lock (ura gyaku in this example)
    - The attacker knows the lock that's coming and resists to the best of their ability

    https://vimeo.com/m/92024985

    I know it's not very dynamic, but it does seem to help and I'm going to do more of this kind of training at my place

    This example is a bit light because we haven't got gloves for the punchers right hand (which would up the intensity a bit) & we only do this every now and again

    The blocks and distance is longer that you often see because I'm paranoid about whatever they may have in their free hand. Also the objective is to extend the grabbing arm to set up the lock (you keep his hand trapped)
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2014
  12. hatsie

    hatsie Active Member Supporter

    I liked the basic principle of keeping something between you and attacker, in this case his arm arm. Nice angling and kudos for having the kahoonies to put up a clip.
     
  13. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Nice video.

    A few points:

    1) You don't want to circle around to the opponent's back like you demonstrate with ura gyaku because he can rotate out if the lock from that position(by putting his hand to his back) and he can back kick you from there. It is best if his arm is kept at a 90 degree angle to his body.

    2) You want to think about keeping your elbows down when taking the lock, raised elbows require you to power on the lock and all you need is to rotate his wrist. Play with different ways that can be done without leaving your body open to counters.

    3) The biggest issue is moving his grabbing arm. If you drag his arm in the direction of your evasion, he can pivot easier to throw his punch and you are doing the pulling of it towards you. Try to keep his arm stationary as you move offline. It is more subtle, requires less power, and doesn't let him know he's being manipulated.

    4) Don't lean over, remember poor posture means you are fighting yourself too.

    5) Now that all these things are dealt with, the real technique comes to life. As his grab is making contact, you are doing the lock simultaneous with the block and evasion. Doing them in unison makes his punching momentum do part of the work for you and also jars his body while he is punching instead of doing it in a one, two, three fashion where the evasion and striking come together but the lock comes afterwards. Then you won't have to run away and he won't get to take that many shots.
     
  14. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Thanks PR - some really good points

    Here's the clip from the preceding slot of the class. Showing the basic form that I'm trying then to apply with a bit more resistance

    https://vimeo.com/m/91425796

    Food for thought - thanks
     
  15. Pankeeki

    Pankeeki Valued Member

    Hi Dunc ,
    In addition to what was already mentioned by PR you might also think about keeping your bodyweight more on one foot and your legs closed, Now you are open to kicks to the groin and low kicks against your front leg.

    Just my two cents,

    take care
     
  16. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Hi

    Thanks for this
    At which point do you see the opening?

    Thanks
     
  17. Big Will

    Big Will Ninpô Ikkan

    Already when you take the first step from shizen - you could avoid this by changing the angle of the step slightly and using the front leg as protection by closing the gap.

    Kudos for posting!
     
  18. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    My god...a video clip of some training, some positive advice taken in the spirit it was intended and some good natured back and forth discussion.
    What sub-forum am I in!??!

    (Joking aside I'm loving this back and forth and openess) :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2014
  19. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    We apologise for the disruption to your viewing.

    Normal service shall be resumed as soon as we locate the problem.

    :Angel:
     
  20. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Hi Will

    Do you mean the 1st or 2nd position?

    Thanks loads
     

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