I'm intertested in learning more about the above MT gym. All I know for sure is it's run by Barry Norman and it's in Byker. Everything else I have heard is rumours; most of them verging on Horror Stories concerning how "brutal" the training regime is, how it's not friendly to new starters and how first timers tend to get kicked all over the place in training. Now whilst I dont believe in everything I am told these rumours seem to be pretty universal and have been goiung back over 10 years. Can someone who actually trains there please tell me the real truth? What can I excpect form an average session there? I tried checking the website but it was almost totally unhelpful. Whilst I plan to keep training at Phoenix MMA (I love the atmosphere, instructors and facilities) I wouldn't mind throwing in another MT class a week as 2 just isn't enough for me. Would this be frowned upon do you think?
hi scp kensei,whilst i dont train at sor thanikul myself so cant answer all your questions from experience(sorry!), i do however know the instructor barry norman personally,barry is not the sort of instructor who would let a begginer get hurt in his/her first training session,the best advice i can give you is for you to go and watch a class,talk to barry and perhaps some of the newer students and see/hear for yourself what really goes on at sor thanikul,good luck with your training in muay thai,oh and i dont think the instructors at pheonix mma gym would mind you training at another gym,but out of respect why not mention it to them anyway
Sor Thanikal is IMO by far the best Muay Thai gym in the area. Barry is a good coach and a very nice guy. I train there although I'm not a Muay Thai stylist (however I like to train against different styles) Sor Thanikal has had a list of champions over the years and only the fighters training is as hard as mentioned previously. If your instructors would discourage training somewhere else I generally am quite suspicious of their motives. If you have the best instruction then you won't lose good students to anyone else. However the reverse is also true.
Thanks for the replies guys. I was givent he inmpression that the place was full of knuckle draggers and animals. I'll see iof I can find some time (training 5 days a week atm) to pop round. My main concern with training in 2 places is that If/when I fight I woiuldn't want to have divided loyalties.
I attend the club six hours a week and I think it's awesome. As Kensei mentioned it has a great atmosphere. The classes are well structured and the instructors really know what they are doing. You get a free 7 day trial so why not come along sometime and see what you think.
"Phoenix Vale Tudo Vale Tudo translated from Portuguese simply means anything goes. It is the Brazilians version of no holds barred competition. Unlike most other institutes teaching this combat sport we have a fully comprehensive grading syllabus from the complete beginner. Phoenix Academy has created many opportunities for the students to start careers in this fast growing sport." TAKEN FROM THE PHEONIX WEBSITE The simple reason most institutes don't have a "Vale Tudo" grading syllabus is because grades are totally irrelevant in MMA. Is Randy Couture a "VALE TUDO" black belt, of course not. Grades can be usefull as a marketing tool or to encourage development but you can't grade in a style of competition. I would ask who is currently competing from Pheonix in MMA?? I think there are many good places to train in Newcastle. I think you have to judge any gym that calls itself an MMA gym by it's fighters. What competitions they attend and how they do??? Muay Thai wise Sor Thanikal will take some beating as they have a list of champions spanning 30 years. Barry is one of the most repected MT coaches in the UK. The AFC in Newcastle have an array of excellent coaches: John Aitken is not only an excellent Ninjitsu sensei but has an array of grappling and stand up skills, he also now regularly trains with the Machado's in L.A. Lee Mair is an Excellent boxing and MMA coach and Paul Colesby's MMA training has received glowing reports from Newcastle MMA fighters such as Pete Tiarks, Pete Irving, Brian Blewitt, I believe Paul is a GB blue belt but definately at the highest end of Blue belts. Also I believe Pheonix advertise that they teach BJJ?? Has Iain Brownlee a grade in BJJ and under who? We have had a few guys come from Phoenix who grappled for 1-2 years who didn't own a GI, No Gi grappling is Not BJJ. I know Karl Tanswell regularly does seminars there and maybe they are graded through Karl but as far as I'm aware our club Gracie Barra Newcastle are the only recognised BJJ club in Newcastle itself, there are also: Steve Muckle in Northumberland, Trevor Mitchell (master Team Sunderland) and Dave Harewood (Team Crezio) in Washington. Pheonix advertise well, market well and do what they do. I however think some of their marketing is somewhat misleading. They have great facillities and I have met Iain and Matt who are both nice guys but IMO I think for MMA/BJJ and Muay Thai there are better places in the North East and without the condition of monthly membership. This is purely my opinion. If you disagree fine, come and check out the above clubs and make up your own mind. You can find contact details for all the above clubs on www.xsportsuk.co.uk
As I live in Sunderland and its abit of a trek to get to Newcastle. Sunderland has a few good gyms, like the Spartan kickboxing club which has turned out a few European and World champions. Also they have a BJJ team, Master Team, qualified under Roger Brookings. Also Combat Forum which has been open about 2 years now so they aint got any champs, but the Thai instuctor is excellent. Also Colin Sexton (sp?) who trains a mate of mine, his awesome.
Yeah I've heard good things about Combat Forum and I know Trevor M from Master team very well, Top bloke!
Yes because of course a Gi is what defines a martial art Perhaps if Iain gets taken to the ground on the street he can ask his opponent to wait a moment while he puts on his Gi so that he can use his BJJ techniques And as far as gradings go, when it comes to the crunch (i.e. streetfighting situation) I don't think the fact that you got graded is gonna be what could potentially save you from serious harm...perhaps you should come and watch Iain before you begin bashing.
Alex does make a good point about the Gi. There are a lot of techniques that cant be done without a Gi jacket. However so far the quality of instruction has been excellent so i'm not complaining. We learn Machado derived BJJ in Phoenix. I ahven't asked Ian about his qualofications, because Iain is one of those guys who's ability speaks for itself. There are a few guys who compete in MMA and submission wrestling at Phoenix but competitive training ios not the gym's main focus. For more information probably best to ask Matt or Iain yourself.
I was making the point Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is simply not done without a GI. No Gi Jiu Jitsu has a name in Brazil 'Lutre Livre' I believe(pardon the spelling as my portuguese isn;t upto much) and wasn't having a go at Iains Grappling skill as I haven't seen him for a couple of years and believe me I had absolutely no grappling at the time, just simply the fact I don't believe Pheonix teach actual BJJ. Machado Derived? WTF is that?? Are they Machado affiliated?? Either it is genuine BJJ or it isn;t otherwise it should be advertised as a No Gi grappling class. Go to a genuine BJJ school. Find they guys who have grappled roughly the same time span, see how you fare?? If you do ok then you are enlightened if you get trashed you are also enlightened. A No lose situation.
phoenix is a MMA gym that actively embraces a JKD mentality. by definition they aren't gonna be fussed by people cross training alsewhere.
hi guys matt here, just wanted to clear somethings up about phoenix. 1. yes Iain has teaching credential through karl tanswell and sbg. 2. our bjj class is now phoenix grappling class, which incorperates bjj as well as other grappling systems, thats my fault for not updating the marketing material. 3. as for the Vale tudo class we have abandoned the structue of grading for this and have made it more of a sparring/ conditioning class again my fault for not updating the material. hope this cleared some things up. as for muay thai, i have met Barry a few times and both times he seemed a nice guy and very competent instructor, give it a go kensei and dont worry about divided loyalties you gotta reasearch everything!! there is also a guy called Shaun Dooney in the area i belive. he is one of the top muay thai guys in the country. last i heard he was teaching out of the gateshead railway club. take it easy matt
Thankyou Matt, full respect for your honesty. There is that cleared up. I'm guessing the BJJ banner will come down from the site and be replaced by Pheonix Grappling. In reality its no big deal but if someone wants to learn actual BJJ and then comes on here and argues a GI doesn't define a martial art then unfortunately it shows they are somewhat misinformed. BJJ is defined by the Gi, Most BJJ guys train no gi too but there are so many techniques either best learned with a gi or that you just can't do without one. Collar chokes an obvious one but there are many guard passes, sweeps and set ups all needing the gi. We are currently working on a grappling tournament in newcastle and I hope your guys will attend.
No offence, I thought the same thing even though this whole scene (newcastle MMA/MT ) is none of my business. I just hate to see a lot of this gym Vs gym bickering. You will always get the different sorts of gyms. Gym A = been running 20-30 years, attract a lot of HARD ppl, they do a lot of fighting (anyone who isnt tough enough simply gets filtered out or beaten out of the gym) and win a lot of titles. They also slag off ANY gym who arent as good as they are at winning title belts. Gym B = Have been running for a long time, attract a lot of kids, odler ppl and also a lot of middle class and high income ppl. They may have been compeititve once upon a time but now stress "family martial arts" and "confidence building". Can often be seen to be a Mcdojo. Gym C = Not been running quite as long, tend to attract a lot of "middle class"people but have excellent instructors. Are quite grading orientated but produce good quality martial artists.sometimes put a few people to compete at mainly an amateur level and often do ok but not quite as well as say Gym A. Which gym is for you? Out of the 3 I would say that Gym C is better for most people.
there is always a certain turnover in a gym, but it depends on what you are doing there. but yu tend to keep core students and the best way of getting new ones is by word of mouth, TKD has a good marketing ploy and gets alot of kids. People joining MA gyms, there are people who join for fitness some for the art and the most dedicated for both. Matt @Newcastle has some great people and it is a really great gym i would advise anyone to go there
