Soldier murdered in London

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by seiken steve, May 22, 2013.

  1. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

  2. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    to be really sickened, watch the video of the alleged perpetrator talking about it afterwards, with bloody hands and holding the implements no less.
     
  3. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    Yeah I have, not nice at all.
     
  4. Razgriz

    Razgriz Valued Member

    Brutal,inhumane and disgusting. Thoughts with the family of the victim and those in his respective unit.

    Raz
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2013
  5. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Just watched it - I am actually shaking with rage
     
  6. robertmap

    robertmap Valued Member

    Hi All,

    Hope it's OK to post here something I have just posted on facebook:

    If you are thinking about the killing of the soldier in Woolwich today - Before you react with anger or hatred - remember the response that terrorists WANT is to inflame hatred and to get 'the enemy' to react harshly towards the group the terrorists (claim to) represent - that way the reaction that they provoke goes to help them show that they are right. Hatred does not defeat hatred. - Note, I do not mean that we should be weak, or stand by and let our English way of life be compromised, it's just worth remembering that an 'English way of life' includes people from many many countries and of many many religions (and of course those of no religious belief).
     
  7. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    I like that.

    I mean I still the the killers should be castrated slowly when they recover from the gunwounds but I like what you're saying.
     
  8. Hive

    Hive Valued Member

    Moronic rudeboy gansta wannabe got radicalised and flipped out. Hope he rots.
     
  9. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member

    I would expect that there will be a backlash against the wider Muslim community, because knucklescrapers like the EDL are always looking for an excuse to start some trouble. In an ideal world, they'd be locked up in a big cell with the islamist terrorists and left to fight each other to the death, while outside we threw away the key.
     
  10. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...have-something-sinister-in-store-8628100.html

    ''Islamic terrorist attacks account for fewer than 100 deaths in the UK – which, of course, is too many. But, in recent years, we've seen the IRA apologise for the death of 1,800 “non-combatants” alone, I can guarantee the knuckle-draggers won’t be chasing Paddy down the road on St Patrick’s day.

    Lest we forget that Anders Breivik, a Christian, killed 69 people – mostly teenagers – on and around the island of Utøya, Norway and the many, many school shootings by mostly white, non-Muslim people in the United States.''
     
  11. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    We shouldn't treat this as a terror attack. We should treat it as any other murder and give it the same amount of publicity as any other murder. People like this thrive on the attention their actions draw to them. Give them no attention and the next psychopath wont see it as their route to infamy.

    There's a reason the number of mass shootings at schools in the US has gone up since the introduction of 24/7 news broadcasting.
     
  12. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    I disagree. It shouldn't be treated as any other murder because it isn't any other murder. We shouldn't be cowed by it, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about it.

    By analogy, what made the murder of James Byrd, Jr., different than some random shooting in a convenience store robbery?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Byrd,_Jr.

    The fact that it wasn't just one person killing another. It was person A killing person B as a threat to persons C, D, and E that persons F, G, and H would to the same to them. It's not the magnitude of a crime that makes it terrorism, but the intent. This was definitely terrorism. It wasn't about killing the victim. It was about threatening others that an organized force could do the same to them.

    Talking about the terrorist act gives the criminals media exposure, but it also gives us a chance to realize the greater threat caused by the social movement making the threat, and ask what we as a society can do about it. That's true whether we're talking about white supremacy with the James Byrd murder or Islamic extremism with this murder.

    Mass shootings actually haven't gone up; awareness of them has. Two of the worst mass-murders at schools in the US were in 1927 (44 dead, 58 injured) and 1966 (17 dead, 32 injured). Violent crime is actually down dramatically in the US in the past couple decades:

    Gun crime has plunged in the United States since its peak in the middle of the 1990s, including gun killings, assaults, robberies and other crimes, two new studies of government data show.


    Yet few Americans are aware of the dramatic drop, and more than half believe gun crime has risen, according to a newly released survey by the Pew Research Center.

    In less than two decades, the gun murder rate has been nearly cut in half. Other gun crimes fell even more sharply, paralleling a broader drop in violent crimes committed with or without guns. Violent crime dropped steeply during the 1990s and has fallen less dramatically since the turn of the millennium.

    The number of gun killings dropped 39% between 1993 and 2011, the Bureau of Justice Statistics reported in a separate report released Tuesday. Gun crimes that weren’t fatal fell by 69%.


    http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-gun-crimes-pew-report-20130507,0,3022693.story
     
  13. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Giving it massive media exposure makes it more appealing to the next terrorist.
    No, that's not true.

    There have been 62 mass shootings since 1982, 25 of those occurred since 2006 and 7 of them took place in 2012*. Do I need to plot you a graph?

    Mass media coverage glamourises the crime and leads others to replicate it. The coverage of mass shootings in the US has made it the self destruction climax of choice in the US. I don't particularly want public beheadings to become vogue for terrorists who want to get their faces on the news.

    Edit *: I should add, those numbers are using the criteria defined by this Mother Jones article, which excludes things like gang violence and armed robberies.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2013
  14. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    It's not like there wasn't very serious ethnic and religious strife prior to modern 24/7 news media. We're not talking about some random attention-seeker, we're talking about a radical religious movement with supporters around the world. A radical religious movement that is perhaps most violent in countries without the sort of media coverage the US and UK has (all the Muslim extremist violence against other Muslims in countries like Pakistan, Iraq, and Afghanistan).

    No, but you do need to drop the offensive tone from what was previously a respectful discussion. And for the record, those statics were based off of an extremely broad definition of mass shooting. I don't remember if there even needed to be two people injured; it may have just been two people in the vicinity when multiple shots were fired. Regardless, it's misleading because that's NOT what people think of when they hear "mass shooting." Fatal shootings are down 40% in the US over the past twenty years and non-fatal shootings are down 70%. Those are cold hard casualty statistics. We're not seeing a surge in violence combined with modern media coverage. Just a surge in awareness of crimes that is leading to a widespread false belief that violence is on the increase.

    Muslim extremist terrorists have used beheadings as a favorite means of killing for centuries because it's spelled out in the Qur'an. Whether or not we talk about today's horrific crime is not a make-or-break matter in whether Muslim extremist terrorists are going to continue to rely upon it.

    "Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks." -- Sura 47, verse 4

    "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them." -- Sura 8, verse 12

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...009/02/decapitation_and_the_muslim_world.html
     
  15. Razgriz

    Razgriz Valued Member

    Someone posted this on my facebook today, Im not one for religion at all, but thought it was nice enough to share.

    The soldier stood and faced God,
    Which must always come to pass.
    He hoped his shoes were shining,
    Just as brightly as his brass.

    'Step forward now, you soldier,
    How shall I deal with you ?
    Have you always turned the other cheek ?
    To My Church have you been true?'

    The soldier squared his shoulders and said,
    'No, Lord, I guess I ain't.
    Because those of us who carry guns,
    Can't always be a saint.

    I've had to work most Sundays,
    And at times my talk was tough.
    And sometimes I've been violent,
    Because the world is awfully rough.

    But, I never took a penny,
    That wasn't mine to keep...
    Though I worked a lot of overtime,
    When the bills got just too steep.

    And I never passed a cry for help,
    Though at times I shook with fear.
    And sometimes, God, forgive me,
    I've wept unmanly tears.

    I know I don't deserve a place,
    Among the people here.
    They never wanted me around,
    Except to calm their fears.

    If you've a place for me here, Lord,
    It needn't be so grand.
    I never expected or had too much,
    But if you don't, I'll understand.

    There was a silence all around the throne,
    Where the saints had often trod.
    As the soldier waited quietly,
    For the judgment of his God.

    'Step forward now, you soldier,
    You've borne your burdens well..
    Walk peacefully on Heaven's streets,
    You've done your time in Hell.'
     
  16. GoldShifter

    GoldShifter The MachineGun Roundhouse

    ^I must say (quoting that would be super long) that was beautiful.
     
  17. Razgriz

    Razgriz Valued Member

    Id of put the author but it seems author unknown.
     
  18. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    Hope you don't mind I've shared that myself.
     
  19. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Social media reaction somehow managed to depress me more than the murder. Thoughts with the murdered man's family, and with the people who had to witness that.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2013
  20. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member

    I know exactly what you mean. Reading the comments posted under the article from the Independant which Fusen posted made me feel like I'd just crawled through a sewer.

    I suspect that the far right are quite media-savvy in that they seem to blitz any blogs relating to subjects of interest to them. It's probably just a handful of people with multiple accounts, but if they manage to create the impression of widespread support for their views, then morons will follow them like sheep.

    Of course I could be wrong about that, but the massive discrepancy between their online presence and their actual support at the polling stations makes me suspect that there is a tactic being used.
     

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