Soft-Internal Arts vs Hard-External Arts

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Mad-about-Bagua, Oct 21, 2011.

  1. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    depends on your understanding of soft and hard.

    hard styles are usually physical elements and developments.
    soft styles are usually mentally and emotional elements and development.

    No decent MMA guy or even boxing competitor can get to an advanced level of competition with out confronting their psychology and developing self understanding - this is a major part of sport psychology with athletes.

    soft style aspects are probably included into your training.
    In BJJ you're told to relax and not use your strength too much but rather let the technique work for you.
    It's a similar understanding in soft styles where you want to develop relaxation under pressure or just generally increase your ability to react quickly with things such as extreme muscular tension with no pressure to get your body used to certain movement patterns.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2011
  2. Putrid

    Putrid Moved on

    If you watch a small child move,preferably one under two years of age,you will find they make good use of the torso when moving.All internal arts do is move us back to that natural way of moving.Good athletes do this anyway and others often get there if they spend years training.Its not the often touted "natural movement" which is usually about making use of movement already corrupted by bad habits but rather getting rid of those bad habits and returning to what was always there.
     
  3. John R. Gambit

    John R. Gambit The 'Rona Wrangler

    I'm pretty sure the OP was just trolling guys.
     
  4. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    If so then it's a very long-established troll job, as this guy has been a member for several years...

    Must keep an eye out to see if this sort of thing repeats!
     
  5. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    Here's a bunch of "EMA" artists. They certainly seem decrepit, crippled, and unable of fighting don't they?

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0JerGLU6GA&feature=related"]Sensei Morio Higaonna. Karate. - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESYN8thbFUQ"]Shinyu Gushi performs Sanchin - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH8xH_CrwvY"]Soke Takayuki Kubota 10th dan Gosoku-ryu - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yA-WuPkR8w"]Okinawa Strengthening - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDkyEBR5KAw"]Hideo Ochi P-1 - YouTube[/ame]
     
  6. melbgoju

    melbgoju Valued Member


    As a current father of two small children (one under the age of two) and amused observer of the similarly aged kids at our mother's group, I would respectfully disagree. Most of the first two years of life is an uncoordinated, uncertain jumble of movement where they are learning which bits go where and how, in order to move in and manipulate their environment. In watching my two learn to walk (and in seeing others' children do likewise, I feel safe in generalising from my specific circumstances) they worked out how to use the different parts in isolation and only gradually came to a coordinated ability. I see the same in their ability to throw - my 21 month old only uses her hand and arm, whereas my 4 year old has started adding some shoulder and a bit of torso to it.

    With regards to the torso, I have observed that it is weakness and instability in their core that is one of the biggest and earliest hindrances in walking - once their core muscles firm and become more coordinated with their movement, they are better able to run, navigate and cope with environmental variability. But it is ultimately, a learned, rather than innate coordination.
     
  7. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Some very nice points there.

    Since I spend a pretty big amount of observing people and kids (quick sketch for illustration and animation) not to mention having to teach a few (luckily none that tiny)... one thing you can't but help notices it that small children in the age group that's being talked about above are pretty much in a state of constant imbalance.

    The more you understand about injuries and the older you get (and don't have kids) the more nerve wracking this can be to watch because every step is a disastrous sequence of badly timed movements... lots of pauses while the CNS catches up with the last batch of neural firings and launches the next... very herky jerky... the limbs are still working fast and furious to catch up with the ever growing ambition of the rapidly changing mindset of the baby... the body is essentially firing a cannon from a canoe repeatedly. Because they haven't developed their core strength and their motor capacities yet. Luckily for humans (most off them anyhow) this changes rapidly as they grow.

    They often remind me of cartoon drunks. The way every move is just about to be a tumble and then precariously they pull it off. :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2011
  8. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    You're missing the point of what Guyin is getting at. Even in so called 'hard styles' Muay Thai for example or western boxing... even though they are not CMA's they easily fit those definitions set forth...

    So even for those two... the more fluid and relaxed you can become in between the bursts of explosiveness during attacks and the structured moments of defense then the more effective a fighter you become.

    It's something I deal with all the time running guys through the basics of boxing and muay thai - lots will come in already strong as... so they try to muscle through it... essentially a 'hard style' approach... only that burns a lot of energy... telegraphs punches and basically locks down the whip like response that you want in fluid movement for boxing and Muay Thai.

    So while you can practice martial arts without the 'softer' aspects... it's not going to get you very far... smooth, supple and whip like technique come from a combination of the relaxation of the body and the interplay between the agonistic and antagonistic muscles recruited during movement.
     
  9. gorinnosho

    gorinnosho Kendo Addict

    some call hikite, pull hand. meaning you've grabbed the opponents hair, clothing or skin and are ready to beat them into playing by your rules.
     
  10. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    slight correction, we don't call it pull hand, it IS called pull hand. it's what the word means :p

    karate is not a 100% hard style, however, not even in the hardest styles like kyok and uechi. if it's USED that way, it's another matter, but all good karate has plenty of soft elements, even if "internal mechanics" ala chen taiji or bajiquan aren't necessarily taught as intergral parts of the systems.
     

Share This Page