So you wants to study Silat?

Discussion in 'Silat' started by Orang Jawa, May 6, 2006.

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  1. silatliam

    silatliam Valued Member

    Dear Kiai
    You quoted " Threats from Liam and your other dogs just make me laugh and my friends from Indonesia and Malaysia who come to my Sunday events for free really want to see you make real your threats/challenges."

    Where did I threaten you???? I offered you a opportunity to come along to Dublin and to inform my students face to face (not over an internet) why what they do is wrong.
    About a Year ago one of your so called Indonesian / Malaysian friends made a visit to my club, on the phone he was very friendly and asked could he come along and train. When he got to the club, he started mouthing off that Cimande should be only taught by Indonesian. He challange one of my intermediate students to a match, he lasted 11 seconds before he was knocked to the ground and kicked across the floor before we had to stop the silat match as he was completely out played and out spar. (11 Seconds lets count that 1... 2.... 3... 4... 5....6... 7... 8... 9... 10... 11.... this great Indonesian Cimande Warrior beaten by a Pukulan Cimande Pusaka silat student who was only training for 2 Years ) He apologies afterwards for his statements and rudeness, and than wanted to start learning from us, as he said "what he learnt in Indonesia made him look like a stiff crapy Karate fighter, and didn't have the flow that was in our style" wow another Indonesian. IThe event was witness by 9 others. So Kiai if you think we quaking because you have Indonesian / Malaysian friends that wont really wash. because firstly I have no bones to pick with them as the only person I see here ranting is you. You keep saying you speaking on behalf of others, but actually who???? Why dont they speak up?? Aare they not internet cafes in Indonesia. Secondly if these friends of yours want to play thats cool, we can all play we dont care if there Indonesian, Irish, American, Spanish or even from Mars.

    Kiai I have heard about the way you move, and my student has seen you move to be totally honest I dont want to learn what you have to offer, as if I saw what you are offering as Silat back 20 Years ago, I would have kept to Karate. You can call as many names as you like to us,the only thing you are doing to many of the students here is to actually turn them against Indonesian and their culture. I took up Silat as a Martial Art, that is what I teach, there is many beautiful things about Indonesian Culture and there many terrible things, same as all cultures, even the small Indonesian community in Ireland are always arguing and fighting about who in charge. But at the end of the day, all my silat teachers were fighters Jak Othman, Richard De Boardes, William Sanders etc.. not talkers. You can use this forum to discuss, but if you just using this forum to spread lies and hatred than something will be done about it.

    I will asked again will you not accept our invitation to come to Dublin ?
  2. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    In the name of God the Mercyfull.
    Stop this childish exchange....
    With all do respect to all party, STOP IT! Just stop it!
  3. Ular Sawa

    Ular Sawa Valued Member

    I do believe he's on to something here guys.

    Hope that marriage thing goes well for you Chief.....
  4. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    Come on, guys. This isn't making anyone look good.
  5. rizal

    rizal Valued Member

    Moderator, sorry to bother you but I think some of the posts are already out of topic. This topic concerns (i think) what someone should do when he/she wants to learn silat, not about someone credentials. If they want to talk about it, please do it in another thread, will ya?

    BTW concerning weapons use in silat, I don't think it's right to call keris and kujang as only a talisman (I think that is the meaning of tosan aji). Both are weapons, same as rencong, mandau, badik, clurit, dll. Whether they have secondary ability (great, I'm thinking like a MMORPG guy) it doesn't mean it lost its original purpose.

    Another BTW, Keris as a talisman has many aspects. Any good authority in keris would tell you that there are keris for farmers, just as there are keris for mercenary, traders, and nobles. That's why an mpu usually learns thoroughly about the one who order a keris.
  6. Pekir

    Pekir Valued Member


    I concur, this serves no purpose nor audience. You might consider to continue this by personal e-mail. Questioning things is not a problem but realizing it's going to lead nowhere shouldn't be too.

    More in general.
    Some of us have a hard time with the spelling of the Indonesian words by non native speakers. Some people on this thread may use old (pre-indepence) spelling, Tj instead of C e.g., and some use almost a phonetic writing. This happens all over the internet, if someone feels the need to clarify that this is not in accordance with the present spelling of Bahasa Indonesia it could also be done with more respect. I'm not a native English speaker and would consider it very impolite (even this word could be spelled wrong) if anyone would bash me around the thread for this. I can hardly expect people to read my posts in the Dutch language :)

  7. Sgt_Major

    Sgt_Major Ex Global Mod Supporter

    In part I agree that it is off topic to a degree .... however, until this issue is sorted it will continue to raise its ugly head in many many threads in this section. I COULD, lock the thread, and let it move on, but that would be a ticking time bomb until it happens again, as many of you know.

    In this instance I am inclined to get this all out in the open, and 'thrash' it out until some conclusion is reached, either someone agrees to drop it, or more likely, those concerned agree to disagree, agree that there are more important things in life than a website, and other people's opinions on someone.

    For instance there are 2 people who's opinion matters to me: My wife, and my daughter. Their opinons of me are all that matter, I really dont care what joe doe thinks about me or what I do, if you think my fighting sucks, good for you, it doesnt bother me, if you think my fighting is good, happy days, good for you.

    For now, Im going to let things continue, but I would ask that we remember to attack the argument/ideal, NOT the person.

  8. Silat Ger

    Silat Ger New Member

    Only warriors?

    Hello all,
    again I feel inclined to write on this forum because people write bad about each other.. Even though I dislike the medium, for everything that is written down seems to get a life of his own and then becomes the gospel truth. The only thruth is; there is no real thruth, everything is in the eye of the beholder. I am a student of Pendekar Sanders and proud of it. The guy is great, honest and yes sometimes we disagree. If that is the case we work it out and if it does not work out we respect each others opinion. That's as it should be. I do not know Kiai Cherita altough we had our "crossing of words" in the past. I respect his care for his culture and think he is honest in this. But noone knows it all and certainly not about Jawah and Indonesia in general. There are more cultures there in a squere mile then in the whole of America. The same holds true for styles in Silat. Every town has its own unique blend and every teacher does it at least a little different. Every style was invented some time by someone who wanted to do it different. Now that seems to be a crime. Why? Yes Pendekar Sanders put things together. He never said otherwise. He made Pukulan Cimande Pusaka what it is, and to me it is great. It doesn't have to be great for you. If you don't like it stay were you are and lets be friends. If some words are wrong, some cultural fact is mistaken, who really cares as long as the system works? Sure it should be right, but then don't fight! Talk about the mistakes and teach someone!
    He, that sounds familiar. Didn't I write that about the Kris? I was stating argument in the past and asked!! for guidence and argument back but all i got was nothing. And about learning about Kris by translation: Why not. If someone who knows as much as some in this forum do don't share, you have to do something. Don't get mad about it but accept the guy's wanting for knowledge in someting that is so important for your culture.
    To get it out of the way: yes my book on the kris is published now. It is great!!! And sure I will be trown in the mud by some. But who cares? The book is not the deffinitive thruth since this does not exist. But it is a workable book for someone who has no way of getting a real teacher on the subject. Don't slander me for it, but acknowledge my sincerity in wanting to share what I have learned over the past 27 years. If there are mistakes, help me to get them straight, I will thank you for it. But come with arguments and prove please!

    A last point. I told a friend of mine about this fichting going on. I really did not understand it. She said: Ït's ovious, they are all only warriors. They only know how to fight so that's what they do. Isn't it time to become real Pendekar. Isn't this someone who stand above all fighting and should be a guiding light? More a priest than a warrior?

    Ger Giesen.
  9. Sgt_Major

    Sgt_Major Ex Global Mod Supporter

    Good post Gilat Ger. I agree with a lot of what you say there.
  10. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    Silat Ger,
    I have asked everyone not to discuss or bad mouthing William Sanders and Kiai. It should be between them.
    And please don't preach something that you don't know nothing about.
    I don't know how to be a pendekar, I was a never a pendekar, my teacher was not a pendekar, and my teacher's teacher is not a pendekar. Between the three of us we have 150 plus years silat experience. However, we knows how to behave as a human being.
  11. rizal

    rizal Valued Member

    concerning the above 'war' i think it comes out to:

    "Is the Cimande Pusaka taught by Guru Sanders can be considered Cimande?"

    Well, it solve it is very simple...

    1. Does anyone in this thread specifically trained in Cimande? And no, those who trained in styles that INCORPORATE Cimande are not considered as Pesilat Cimande.

    2. Now, if we have two or three guys who are Pesilat Cimande, let them and Guru Sanders talk and they can decide if Guru Sanders's style is Cimande or not.

    To Guru Sanders and its students: please understand that it is not out of disrespect some (at least not all) posters in this thread question your silat. In my personal experience, there are many schools nowadays who claimed to be originated with some famous old schools (Cimande, Hijaiyah, Sabandar, Sera, etc) yet it doesn't show in their juruses. Worse, some become more like MMA instead of Silat (hmm, a potential for a new thread). I hope you bare that in mind.

  12. Kiai Carita

    Kiai Carita Banned Banned


    Warm salaams to all,

    In respect to God the Most Mercyfull mentioned by my elder Mas Tristan I will stop posting on this thread.

    Warm salaams, (means warm peace)

  13. Jawara

    Jawara New Member

    Asalaam Aleikum,

    At the end of the day this has been a good discussion. I'm coming in kinda late here and was going to ask howcum just a short while ago this person was claiming to teach the 'original Embah Kahir' Cimande, and is now claiming that its his own version of Mas Jud's Cimande, and...

    but then

    I don't think I really want to know.

    :bang: (this just about sums it up)
  14. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    Ground fighting techniques in modren application

    Alhamdullillah! First of all I would like to thanks Mas William and Mas Bram for agreeing not to continue this discussion. I only hope people from either side to refrain or to start the fire again. Insya Allah!

    Time to think another hot topic in silat that nothing to do with personal attack!

    How about the effectiveness of ground fighting technique in modern application?
    This beginer mind wants to know and learn.
  15. Kiai Carita

    Kiai Carita Banned Banned

    :) Mas Tristan, I have heard that alot of the groundwork techniques develop the practitioner to be a hero in bed... Especially if you do jurus buaya, particularly jurus buaya-darat :D :D :D ... And special for Mas Tristan, when it happens , selamat menempuh hidup baru.

    Salaams to all...
  16. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member

    ground fighting is just stand up fighting lying down!!
  17. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    :) Thank you Mas Bram,
    In the west we have a great help form Mr. V. and Mr. L. Not that I need it :)
  18. Wali

    Wali Valued Member

    Hmm... slightly more in it that than.... although I would say that stand up fighting is ground fighting, standing up.... confused? I am!! :p
  19. Kiai Carita

    Kiai Carita Banned Banned

    sex life and ground techniques

    You must know Wali as you have done buaya, right? Is it true that doing buaya improves your sex-life? Please tell us all :D

  20. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    Yes I think you could be right kiai, buaya (crocodile) strengthens the lower back kidney area. Strong kidneys means……. :eek: :D
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