so what happens to MMA fighters when they get older?

Discussion in 'MMA' started by Late for dinner, Dec 31, 2012.

  1. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    So it's almost 30 years since the first UFC (Nov 1993) ...

    Lots of people have been involved in this and similar MMA events.

    I wonder, how do people end up after an MMA career? Do they continue on like more ''traditional'' arts or slow down/stop training like wrestlers/boxers often do (other than those who continue coaching). Do they become examples/pillars of the community or do they end up washed up and messed up (like too many old boxers who get into bad stuff - drink, drugs, crime)? I don't know what percentage of the MMA community stay active and what effect the years of continual physical toil has on them. Lastly it would be interesting to see if there is any sort of comparable level of brain damage (being seen more commonly in American Football players, Boxers etc as research continues).

    Anyone know anything that would help identify what (if anything occurs in ''general'') is occurring in general?

    Thanks in advance!

    LFD
     
  2. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Depends how far you get I'd guess. Chuck got given a job by the ufc which they've both admitted is basically a free cheque. That being said I don't think there's an answer. There was a thread on Sherdog a while ago where they tried to compile a list of old fighters and what they did once they left the sport and it was all over the place. One of them even ended up a car salesman.

    Comparable brain damage I'm interested in too. Brain damage generally I'd again point to Liddell. Hearing him talk now compared to the first Ultimate Fighter is incredibly depressing.
     
  3. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I know Frank Trigg does loads of seminars now, Iain Freeman is the editor of Fighters Only.
     
  4. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/09/14/thomas.football.brain/

    Tau protein changes associated with suicide of a 21 year old american football player...
    the protein changes were associated with repeated blows to the head while playing American football.

    "We know that CTE can bring on things like depression and erratic behavior and problems with impulse control," Dr. Robert Stern, co-director of the Center for the Study of Traumatic Encephalopathy at the Boston University School of Medicine, said on CNN's "American Morning." "And there have been several cases of suicide in the past amongst people who were found to have CTE. But in any individual case, we can't say for sure that there's a link," he said. CTE has been identified in the brains of late NFL football players John Grimsley, Mike Webster, Andre Waters, Justin Strzelczyk, Terry Long, Tom McHale and Chris Henry. Grimsley died of an accidental gunshot wound to the chest. Webster, Long and Strzelczyk all died after long bouts of depression, while Waters committed suicide in 2006 at age 44. McHale was found dead last year of an apparent drug overdose. Henry died at the age of 26 after falling from a moving truck during a fight with his girlfriend. While CTE has been seen in older players who've suffered concussions and repeated head injuries, Thomas had never been diagnosed with a concussion as far back to the age of 9, according to his medical records and family. Thomas was a lineman, a position that endures as many as 1,000 hits to the head per season. Recently, neurologists have suggested that such blows to the head could be deceptively severe, even if the player does not feel any pain or show any symptoms. The accumulation of such strikes to the head could cause long-lasting damage. Young player had brain damage more often seen in NFL veterans "It shows us that you don't need to have had known or reported concussions to develop this brain disease," Stern said. "It really shows us that those multiple, repetitive sub-concussive blows to the head that are experienced by so many athletes in many different sports can bring on the beginnings of this disease."

    It will be interesting to see whether this trend starts to show up in MMA or not.

    LFD
     
  5. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Like anyone, they just go on with their lives. Some may stay in the sport, others may npt.
    Looking at the older generations like Matt Hume or even Royce Gracie, they dont compete but now coach.Tito is a fighter manager, whilst some others has disappeared either in another calling or wasted existence.
    Looking at documentaries such as Beyond the Mat may give some form of insight. Its about Pro Wrestlers and what some of the veterans like Jake The Snake or Koko B.Ware are up to (this was filmed just before the 1997 Screwjob).
    Its interesting but depressing. However this just represents a small percentage of life after TV.
     
  6. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    I watched a documentary with my pops a while ago that interviewed a lot of NFL stars from the past and how many of them are just flat out broke now, and the gold digger/opportunist culture that hounded them while they were famous and how it contributed to their current state. A lot of the stories they told share quite a few similarities with professional combat athletes that I've looked into, the most recent being Mike Tyson.

    I think a combination of athletes often coming from poverty, a lack of education in smart financial endeavors/investments, and a feeling of obligation to "help" others who are asking for it (often a somewhat 'personal' relationship to the athlete) contributes to the lack of continued success for a lot of athletes.

    Heck, I've been following 50 Cent lately because he's decided to get into boxing promotions and in one of his interviews he was talking about Floyd Mayweather and how he has 0 income from anything but fighting. He said he fights, spends the money, and does it all over again. Stagnant money doesn't stay stagnant, you spend it and it depletes and I think a lot of guys miss the point that you have to move your money around to keep making money. There comes a time in any profession where your income is based on your physical ability where the money stops coming in. Once you hit that point you either have to be frugal and stop living lavish, or start moving your money.
     
  7. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    It's not surprising as most fighters come from no money. Which means by and large - no financial management skills. That combined with the celebrity of it all and the inevitable hangers-on that start to surround them... ugh.
     
  8. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Although it can be a good thing from a viewer standpoint. Jon Fitch said he would of quit training full time if he lost to Erik Silva so he came out needing a bigger paycheck and he had a great fight :p
    That does say something about the ufc though that one of the most consistent top 5 WW in the world was desperate for a bonus to keep in training.
     
  9. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Tank Abbot was recently quoted as totally slating what fighters do now. Because they fight in weight classes, they might as well be wearing skirts apparently :/
     
  10. hardball

    hardball Valued Member

    They do kata's! LOL
     
  11. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    I think the fact that many fighters rely on fighting as their only income is the one of the dumbest things ever. There comes a point where you need to start branching out to more stable things, even better if you start of with some sort of stability first. It's too dangerous a profession. One of the things I absolutely loath is pre-fight interviews filled with sob-stories and "destiny" to win. When I hear them I think, "Ok, so you're an idiot."

    I wonder how many of them set themselves up with insurance, especially one for disability if they get hurt and can't fight for a while. Again the lack of financial stability and how to use your money and set yourself up for success is probably lost to a lot of these athletes because of what type of life they are coming from.

    Maybe at some point in my life (since I'm still young and still dream) I can make an organization directed at assisting combat athletes, or athletes in general with financial/investment services, as well as agents directed towards the athletes financial success in the long term since nobody else seems to care about them. I bet you could make some decent money off a venture like that. I'm going to school with a major in Kinesiology, anybody out there doing a business/finance major? Lets start becoming friends :p
     
  12. hext

    hext Valued Member

    surely you mean 20 years?
     
  13. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    It would be interesting to find out what the fighters of the pre ufc era have become. Pancrase and Pro shooto and the old vale tudo tournaments.
     
  14. Kuniku

    Kuniku The Hairy Jujutsuka

    I think the problem financially comes from the amount of training fighters do, the training camps seem to be full time training for 8-12 weeks - time you won't be able to just "have off" from a normal job, so they fight full time - probably why some fighters seem to fight quite regularly. what is questionable is how many of these fighters have a plan for after their fight career ends. or as someone pointed out insurance for dealing with any major injuries they might suffer in the octagon.

    These fighters are likely sponsored as well, I'm sure Anderson Silva makes a pretty penny from his burger king promos etc =p

    I'd like to think that the full time fighters then go into other MMA related professions, be it opening a gym, training new up and coming fighters, becoming a fighter manager or promoter etc.

    I must say I'd not really considered the physcial affects of a fighting career, I'm sure being hit in the head that many times, getting knocked out that many times, getting tapped out that many times etc is going to have a severe physical toll

    (unless you're Anderson Silva who doesnt get knocked out or tapped out =p)
     
  15. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    With the sport technically still being "young" there is still ongoing research into the total lasting effects on a MMA fighter. In regards to affects with smaller gloves, the effects of leg kicks, joint damage etc.
    Echoing Slip, many come from a "no money" background and usually dont see past their careers. You got some like Chuck who has an accounting/business degree or Rich Franklin who was a math teacher.
    Top tier successful fighters such as the Nogs, Wanderlei etc can earn extra money by running their own gyms and giving seminars, but even then its a struggle for them. So imagine those who have average records and still fighting in mid-card shows.
    Many are still in full time work, Shane Carwin for example is a IT manager or something and still worked full time while fighting in the UFC.

    And even when you look at the general pay (which has been discussed) within the UFC/Zuffa its still not great money unless you're a Champ!

    An example I gave in another thread was Pablo Garza who is quite popular, got only $6000 + $6000 win bonus. Thats only $12,000 for 1 fight, and if that could be his only fight for the year! For the UFC, the biggest promotion around.

    Thats without taking into account of all the percentages taken by management, camp etc and not even on general living costs.
     
  16. Kuniku

    Kuniku The Hairy Jujutsuka

    I didn't realise fighters were paid so poorly =/
    but i guess its only the big names you see sat in the crowd sporting all their bling =p
     
  17. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    If I can, I'll try to find the Fighters Only article where there was a discussion in regards to fighters in the UFC, wildly fighting in hopes to get a KO or Fight OTN bonus, with greater hazard to their health as they will block/parry attacks less because its more "entertaining".

    I guess theres also a mental politics game as well, if you have someone like Joe Lauzon who pretty much guarantees a "Of The Night" bonus or if you fight under a big Championship fight which also usually gets a Fight of the Night bonus.

    Zuffa has stated that they do give "off the books" bonuses depending on situations etc.

    Pat Barry I believe was so broke that he was eating rice and ketchup and needed a win in the UFC to gain that bit of extra money.
     
  18. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    To be fair to the ufc that was one of his first fights and after he was coming off a lackluster fight where he got tapped out in just over a minute. Although as with the Fitch - Silva scenario, he came into the Hardonk fight needing a paycheck and put on a great performance. Although I think he was beefing with Hardonk over his trainer giving up on Barry or something as well?

    Still, its more evidence for the "pay fighters peanuts and they will put on a show" column :p
     
  19. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    yeah, hopefully by the time I'm in the UFC (It will happen!) fighters well get paid really good.
     
  20. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    i had no idea that chuck was showing signs of trauma. that's really, really sad. he was one of my favorites.
     

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