so helpless in north-south

Discussion in 'Brazilian Jiu Jitsu' started by sprint, Jul 10, 2007.

  1. sprint

    sprint Banned Banned

    i feel so helpless when my opponent gets me in the north-south position. i am completely immobile and am just stuck there at my opponent's mercy...

    anybody else have this problem?
  2. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    yeah I've never managed anything good from N/S. Ever.
    It's just a crap place to end up at. Even worse if it's gi and your opponent starts adding gi knot burn to your face. :(
  3. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    Hate it. Scramble as quickly as possible to avoid it. Too advanced to deal with right now, unless I'm on top, then it's more of a transition. But I still hate it.
  4. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    For some reason it's one of the truly most claustrophobic positions to end up in.:(
  5. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    Honestly, I wonder if it's a straight guy thing. I'm serious. It's a very submissive position, to be on the bottom of a north/south. I wonder if the discomfort level of that particular position makes it worse than it is?
  6. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Hmm... It makes ya wonder. In general I'm not uncomfortable rolling with other guys. I'm just uncomfortable when I can't breath. :D
  7. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    just a thought. I'm sure someone will make a cute comment, but it does make one wonder.
  8. Stevebjj

    Stevebjj Grappling Dummy

    From under north/south, what I do is first try to get my arms in tight to protect my neck and create some space. Then, start swinging your legs and body back and forth to get some momentum. One of my favorites is to then body lock under his armpits, and alligator roll him with the momentum I've gained from swinging my legs.

    I'm sure there are tons of things you can do, but as a white belt, this is the only thing I know. That said, it works for me, even when I'm giving up 20 or 30 lbs.
  9. EternalRage

    EternalRage Valued Member

    You could bring up both of your hands on either side of his head and push on his traps while swinging your legs around.

    I've seen other funny things like swinging into a triangle from there or spinning your legs around so fast that you actually sweep the guy (Roylers sub grappling book i think), but I'm pretty lost when I get here too.

    If I don't push on his traps immediately and spin out, they usually get me with a kimura or brabo or anaconda or whatever.
  10. Oversoul

    Oversoul Valued Member

    So what would that say about those of us who like to use North/South? :eek:
  11. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    nothing except that you don't give a fig about the odd position. It doesn't mean anything bad if you do.

    The only reason I mentioned it in the first place was because I had a simialr conversation with a gay friend of mine about all the gay jokes associated with BJJ and that when I'm on the floor, it's all about the techniques, period. I was wondering if straight guys got uncomfortable in certain positions.

    Maybe I was wrong and the thread just drifted needlessly. But at least Pei and ER gave us some good advice.
  12. slideyfoot

    slideyfoot Co-Founder of Artemis BJJ

    I find I often get stuck in this when my training partner transitions from side control, normally ending up in some kind of funky collar choke. At the moment, my only defence has been to cling on to their gi and try and spin with them to stop them getting north-south, so will have to give some of the suggestions in this thread a try.

    A guy I was rolling with at one of the Birmingham throwdowns suggested that whenever someone is spinning about on top of you, its a good idea to get on your side to present less of a target. Not had a chance to put that in practice, so may or may not be helpful.

    Possibly on a subconscious level, though its equally unpleasant being forcibly shoved into a woman's crotch under north-south then getting choked. I'd be surprised if anyone could train a long time in BJJ and still be uncomfortable with the potentially sexual interpretations of some positions, whatever their proclivities.
  13. JayKayD

    JayKayD Meet my friend PAIN!

    I agree with slidey, i've never thought of it in that way. What is horrible though is if they are fat and they stink. I'm not just saying that to be nasty, having being under a few fat guys North-South i can tell you its absolutely horrendus. It freaking stinks.

    Sprint, is it me or have you just posted asking for help on every non-dominant position?
  14. Stevebjj

    Stevebjj Grappling Dummy

    Bottom line for me. I've got zero problems with any of the positions from a sexual perspective. I get no thrills at all, male or female. The only thing that ever gives me pause is funk. And believe me, it's not a thrill. It's a pause. :)

    I roll with women the same as I do with the lighter guys. I try not to muscle technique, try to work from the bottom more than the top, and will usually work on things I don't typically get a chance to try.

    Edit to add: This is for the lighter White or Blue belts. I go FULL ON with the purple belts and use whatever advantage I can be it strength, weight or whatever, otherwise they either a: kick my ass or b: get ****ed because I (the white belt) presume to go easy with them... and then REALLY kick my ass. :)

    North/South is uncomfortable, but maybe because my big brothers sat on my and farted when we were kids, among other forms of slow torture, I'm immune to any potential innuendo. :)

    Now, as far as technique goes, we're taught to never go flat, so what Slidey's saying jives 100% with what we're taught. When I mentioned swinging my legs, it's in an effort to create momentum so that I can get my shoulders off the mat. Once you're up on your side, you can try the alligator roll from an upa, or any of the other various escapes, but creating space is always the first thing I've been told to do. Admittedly, easier said than done! :)
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2007
  15. EternalRage

    EternalRage Valued Member

    Well chances are if they are any decent, and is spinning into N&S on top of you, they will keep their weight pinning you down. Even if get onto your side, you will have to turtle fast, otherwise that's inviting a kimura
  16. Atharel

    Atharel Errant

    Upa --> spin to turtle, go for a single leg or sitout (do not get caught halfway or you will be kimura'd or armbarred)
    Upa, pushing up off their shoulder/collarbones, throw your legs over and take the back (hilarious)
    bridge a bit, get a knee in one of their arms (kinda like a reversed spider guard?) use that to spin around to open guard

    those are what I use.
  17. Gufbal1981

    Gufbal1981 waiting to train...

    Wow...that sounds cool just reading it!
  18. JayKayD

    JayKayD Meet my friend PAIN!

    I find you only ever get someone once with that.
  19. flashlock

    flashlock Banned Banned

    (reminder, I'm only a white belt).

    Against bigger guys, especially solid types, I can't escape.

    Against similiar or lighter guys, I can escape about 50% of the time.

    I constantly try to get my knees up to create space; I also grab one of his pant legs and grab some gi near his ribs (grab anything, really) when I upa or bridge.

    Do you also do that thing where you bring your legs up as if to scissor his head to distract him? Never seems to do much for me, but it's something to do.

    Or grab his leg and bite into his calf hard as you can.
  20. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    Short answer: Stop sucking

    Good answer: Keep your arms in close to keep space. Don't let them use their foot to hook one of your arms up over your head. You're pretty much screwed from there. I got a guy with that today and subbed him fairly effortlessly with a NS Kimura.

    I usually keep my hands in tight, make some space, and try to bridge up and over to turtle. If you can base your legs out, and start to walk in a circle to create an angle before you bump to make it easier. A lot of times I simply frustrate the person on top with lack of sub options, and they transition to side mount for something else, where I get them back into guard or reverse them head over heels.

    Unfortunately anyone high blue or higher gets some ridiculous clock choke on me like I'm not even fighting back....I'll get back to you with details on that once I figure out how to stop going unconscious :p

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