So are there any schools out there that don't point spar?

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by Knives101, Oct 26, 2006.

  1. Liam Cullen

    Liam Cullen Valued Member

    oh come on now, after all we've engaged you in your own flight of fancy for several pages now.
     
  2. Wolf

    Wolf Totalitarian Dictator

    perhaps we wouldn't have to resort to such things if you'd actually post the information request. After all you now have all the information you need about MadMonk's Dojang. Or are you waiting for information from all of us on where we train?
     
  3. Artikon

    Artikon Advertise here ask me how

    I don't train . . . I'm just a loud mouth behind the keyboard who has some weird infatuation with kool aid . . . . VIVA LA WEB WARRIOR!!! and I love ninjers
     
  4. Liam Cullen

    Liam Cullen Valued Member

    Just to re-cap :

    etaku
    Dojang: __________ (ATF=American Taekwondo Fellowship)
    Location: ______________

    Tournament:
    Year: ____
    Organisation: _______________
    Name: __________
    Location: Indiana
    Divison: ______
    Rules: ________

    =============================================
    =============================================

    Madmonk
    Dojang: Gakhwangsa, a Buddhist temple
    Location: Baltimore, MD

    Tournament:
    Year: 2001
    Organisation: USTU at the time; now USA Taekwondo
    Name: USTU National Taekwondo Championships
    Location: Cleveland, Ohio
    Division: 154lbs, competing in Pumsae and Kyorugi
    Rules: Olympic-rules match. Not point sparring.
     
  5. Artikon

    Artikon Advertise here ask me how

    No more re-capping, bring on the ladies!!

    Been much more productive of late anyways. Entertain me my minions . . . please?! :Angel:
     
  6. ronaldk

    ronaldk Valued Member

    bah. someone throw out a sparring challenge. it already has been done.

    i mean...

    sounds like not a challenge, but a diss' even. so. who's gonna film it? :woo:
     
  7. Tiki

    Tiki New Member

    Good replies by all...

    But for the original poster, yes, I have seen schools/clubs that practice "no contact" sparring. It exists. I don't mean to sound arrogant when I say, I don't know why it exists, but it does.

    Contact sparring, for points or free style is not for everyone. And I believe that the many facets of martial arts invites each of us to different depths of training.

    When I encounter a reluctant sparring partner, I use controlled technique. I still learn from the match and I still respect my partner. My teacher has encouraged each of us to seek our own levels of accomplishment and to respect other's journeys, even if they differ from our own.

    I consider it brave to post that contact isn't your thing.... you're here and that means you love what you study. What could be better?

    T
     
  8. neryo_tkd

    neryo_tkd Valued Member


    and your av suits your comment perfectly well :D :D :D
     
  9. Artikon

    Artikon Advertise here ask me how

    Hey, I loves what I loves.
     
  10. ronaldk

    ronaldk Valued Member

    no more verbal sparring, no video of actual sparring between the monk and etaku, no more claims, no proof, no more demands for kool aid....

    what gives? don't tell me this thread died already!
     
  11. MadMonk108

    MadMonk108 JKD/Kali Instructor

    Patience, grasshopper.
     
  12. Cosmo Kramer

    Cosmo Kramer Valued Member

    we do a lot of point sparring and practice for it, such as line drills and working on counter attacks. i think most TKD is that way. WTF clearly is because competition is a great way for them to make money. and that is mostly what WTF cares about.
     
  13. MadMonk108

    MadMonk108 JKD/Kali Instructor

    WTF is full contact.
     
  14. New Guy

    New Guy I am NEW.

    I have seen "no contact" sparring in Children classes, and I can see the reason for it... but the one you talk about, is for adults??
     
  15. ronaldk

    ronaldk Valued Member

    no matter what style you practice, i think not sparring/sparring with no contact will really minimize the actual use you could give the art in a real situation. no matter what art it is. seriously, i am tired of this "this and this art is not effective on the streets."

    that comment can really be taken a million different ways. if i'm in college and get into an altercation with some guy, or at the movies, or at a club, chances are he is neither a dangerous criminal, nor an experienced martial artist, or a trained Navy SEAL. 9 times out of 10, he will be a guy just like me. and if i happen to be trained ion any martial art whatsoever, i'm pretty sure the training will help. how much? well, that will depend on all other factors, yet i hear people say the above mentioned comment as if just because i trained in ITF or i trained in WTF, in this situation, i would be LESS than a normal guy.

    now, if i am going to go to a really bad neighborhood to fight 9 guys at the same time who are all gonna use chains, lead pipes and 2x4's, or i plan to walk into some town in Korea and call TKD a stupid girls game only to have 4 members of their national team come at me, then i should look into training in full military krav maga and bring a swat squad with me.

    other than that, no matter how bad etaku or anyone else may think my WTF sparring experience may be, i think i'd prove quite well in a fight against my average joe. not to mention, most people have never actually been kicked in their lives. in a street fight, i normally see guys with a really pathetic stance, or a bad boxing-wannabe stance. a quick roundhouse to the ribs and they'd be out. normally anyone with any proper training and discipline won't get into fights unless it is necessary, so if i were to have started a fight with that guy who pushed me last week for no reason at this conference at my university, i'm almost certain he wasn't a disciplined student of... well, anything.

    in conclusion, IMHO, i think martial arts, no matter what type, will obviously improve your defenses, as opposed to no martial instruction whatsoever. nevertheless, medium to full contact will probably, and i am no expert, make the training a bit more real and will have you prepared to both take it and dish it out. finally, continuous sparring will be a lot more like a real fight than point stop sparring, as who really stops and has the judges seperate them in an altercation? i think sparring should get you used to going as fast as you can, as hard as you can.
     
  16. Artikon

    Artikon Advertise here ask me how

    Thanks for bringing the thread back on topic. Ronald I like your logic and rationale that any sort of formal training will indeed be benificial in self defense. My only qualm is the overconfidence some beginners get that they may be able to stop an untrained person with a kick. This may be a discussion for a different thread however as I really don't want to dwell on it now.

    Cosmo makes a good point in that WTF sparring is for points. Personally with the new rule set my philosophy is get my 7 or 12 points and finish the fight ASAP, if I can finish with a knockout then all the better. In this sense I suppose we could define WTF sparring as point sparring, but the major issue here is that generally point sparring is associated with American stop point, or continous light contact sparring such as in the ITF (ITF guys please don't make an arguement on contact level or we could go in a circle at this juncture). The other issue is that WTF rules have no rule stating that contact level is to be controlled or light or non existant. Full power, full force, full speed is always encouraged. In this sense WTF is full contact with limited targets (before we get an MMA guy in here arguing :D ) Perhaps what WTF should be defined as is a point sparring/Full contact hybrid. Thoughts?

    Onto other matters. For those that have been reading the thread we have had some claims in this thread. MadMonk has made claims of USTU senior nationals involvement, which has been verified by Wolf, and we have had claims from etaku. These claims have included: competing in full contact point sparring, involvement with ATA/ATF, winning national and world titles, jujutsu experience, boxing experience, kickboxing experience, kickboxing on professional level experience, future of competing in the WCL, and has made the claim to me via PM regarding, being associated with three different boxing gyms in the alleged area, matched in golden gloves events, among other things.

    In the exchange of PMs over the last little bit, I have been unable to substantially verify any of these claims. I asked for his name on two occasions which would stay confidential with me while I looked up his record. I also asked which circuits he had competed on the professional level as a kickboxer and who was the promoter. Still I recieved no information that could not be easily googled and copy/pasted. I also received one PM in particular that confesses a lie.

    To me claiming to be fighting on a professional level makes you a professional. I asked etaku to retract the statement, and give sufficient time for him to do so, and he has yet to . . . so there you have it. My opinion of this whole debacle is that etaku has made to many unanswered claims, has not been able to provide evidence of other than either websites that provide "an idea" to background, or irrelevant information. When I ask for kickboxing accounts I get boxing accounts, when I ask for promoters I get information on golden gloves. Final analysis would be. . . .

    [​IMG]

    In the event evidence does come up that this is not the case, I of course will retract and make a public apology, but until then I call horse pucky on the claims and must state.

    Dear:

    [ ] Clueless Newbie
    [ ] Loser
    [ ] Previously Banned Member
    [ ] Bruce Lee Wannabee
    [X ] Troll
    [ ] Spammer
    [ ] 13 year old l337 d00d
    [ ] Flamer
    [ ] Whiner
    [ ] Book Taught Loonie

    You Are Being Flamed Because:

    [ ] You posted a Style Vs Thread
    [ ] You posted a personal attack against a mod
    [ ] You should have used the Search Feature
    [ ] You posted the Real Ultimate Power site again
    [ ] You posted a thread in Ninjitsu asking about smoke bombs/night training
    [ ] You posted a MMA Spoiler in Traditional Healing
    [X ] You posted a thread stating you can run up walls
    [ ] You posted a 'Jet Li vs. Bruce Lee vs. Austin Powers vs. Superman vs. Godzilla vs. Oprah vs. That homeless guy down the street' thread"
    [ ] You posted an OMG The Sky is Falling thread
    [ ] You ressurected a long dead, stupid thread
    [ ] You posted a "YOU ALL SUCK" message
    [X ] You flamed someone and got burnt
    [ ] You posted a thread on Dux Ninjitsu
    [X ] You haven't read the stickies
    [ ] You asked why you can't get into the arcade on your first post
    [ ] You typed in text/leet speak
    [X ] You posted false information then refused to back it up.
    [ ] You posted a video/site we've all seen a thousand times before
    [X ] You posted wildly ridiculous claims, refused to back them up, and had a strop when we asked for proof.

    In Punishment, You Must:

    [ ] Take down all your Bruce Lee posters
    [X ] Stop posting and go to class 3 times a week
    [X ] Actually post something relevant
    [ ] Read the Damn FAQ
    [X ] Go to your room with no supper
    [ ] Apologize to everybody on this forum (execpt KnightCommander, who loves it!)
    [ ] Stand in the Sin Bin and do kata till you die of boredom
    [X ] Never again venture into the wonderful wide world of the interweb
    [ ] All of the above

    In Closing, I'd Like to Say:

    [ ] Learn to type using ALL the correct letters.
    [ ] Welcome to last week.
    [ ] Press Alt and F4.
    [ ] Can I have your stuff?
    [X ] Don't let the door hit you in the ass.
    [ ] All your base are belong to us. Go every Zig.
    [X ] Stop posting STUPID crap.
    [X ] You fail the internet.
    [ ] All of the above.

    Please see Wolf for your report card.

    PS: No Kool-aid for you.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2006
  17. etaku

    etaku New Member


    I did send you info to every qustion you asked besides my name, now its google pasted right? YOU MY SON are a liar a troller can YOU cant handle the turth ...stupid... You could always call the clubs to if you'd like i did send you phone numbers but again thats not proof. kids these days.
     
  18. Liam Cullen

    Liam Cullen Valued Member

    Please edit your post so you don't quote someone else's entire post, only to then completely ignore most of its content. Thanks.
     
  19. ronaldk

    ronaldk Valued Member

    disregarding the etakuness above...

    just a comment in here. i didn't mean to imply that a roundhouse to the ribs and it's a KO, rather the fact that any decent WTF (or ITF) TKD practitioner dishes out a clean shot at the ribs to an untrained person and connects, well, the jab of pain this poor fellow will get will leave him open to just about any other offense our heroic TKD practitioner has in mind.

    and i'm talking about practitioners more or less around my level and under. because, hey, i'm big, and i train hard, and if my Jr. Instructor (17 y/o red belt, 130lbs, but has been training since before he can remember) were to kick me full force in the ribs, i doubt i'd be able to get up from the floor. so in his case and up, yes, he gets to give em a roundhouse to the ribs and he would certainly end the fight.

    this probably has to do with his training. he just loves to fight, and is taught by my master, who still favors things like 3 on 1 sparring if you want to learn how to really fight.
     
  20. Artikon

    Artikon Advertise here ask me how

    1) Older than you

    2) You have not answered all the questions I have asked.

    3) I gave you sufficient time to retract and was open and honest with you about that I would post this information.

    4) Still haven't posted any personal information about yourself BUT if you want to play hardball I can post all the PMs, I just prefer not to as I did give you my word.

    5) Yes I have phone numbers, but without a name calling them would be irrelevant . . .

    Me: So I'm talking with some guy on the internet and he says he trains with you
    Them: Okay what's his name
    Me: I don't know
    Them: *click* dial tone

    Again I say if you had given me your name which I can understand alot of people don't wish to do, then I would have kept it confidential and backed your claims. I have no problem with that, and I think I also gave you a lot more credit than most people did. If you are insulted by that then fine by me. I told you I will call a spade a spade.

    In the end, you make the claim, you back it. If you don't want to back it say so. You admitted an account of lieing to me, were caught in a lie when RonaldK posted his PM inbox after you had claimed to have PMed him with your information. That counts as 2 in my books and one is typically to many.

    I could really give a flying . . . . fornicating friar what your issue is with MadMonk, he's a big boy and stick up for himself, but again you made a claim. I wanted to know more about it and asked you. Information sent isn't solid, and you have been caught with your pants down twice. Credibility = zero.

    Again if you do decide to show me or anyone else true evidence of your claims then fine, I have no problem stepping up and giving you a big sloppy hug and telling you I'm sorry. I'll even goose you if you're into that, but until that time you haven't shown us anything to give us reason to believe your claims.

    Don't think I'm trying to run you off, stay on the forum and state your opinion, take part in discussion, just be advised you make a claim better back it.

    And by the way. That's MR. Troll to you. Don't forget it or I won't give you any Troll-aid.
     

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