Smashing the Face of an Unconscious Attacker

Discussion in 'Brazilian Jiu Jitsu' started by flashlock, Jan 16, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. flashlock

    flashlock Banned Banned

    I have a friend who is very good at BJJ, and he was recently attacked just walking down the street minding his own business. The assailant just got into his face and said, "I'm gonna 'fridge' you up, 'wuss'."--for no reason, just random.

    My friend kicked the guy in the nads and as the guy bent over, headbutted his face, then did a double leg take down and took the guy's back. My buddy told the guy, "You can't win the fight from this position. It's over. Just lay on your stomach, put your hands behind your head, and I'll walk away."

    The guy still struggled and my friend's leatherman tool fell out of his pocket. The assailant grabbed the tool and tried to jab at my friend's face by stabbing it blindly behind him.

    So my friend RNC'ed the guy unconscious. He was so ****ed that the guy had come at his face with the sharp tool, that he hit the unconscious guy's face 30 times while the guy was unconscious. He said he'd look at the cheek bone and say, "OK, break that," and smashed it. He broke the guy's jaw, the orbit around his eye, and his nose.

    I can see with the adrenaline flowing and the rage that the guy tried to stab my friend that that could happen. Is it right or did my friend cross the line by smashing the attackers face while he was unconscious? I mean he SMASHED it--plastic surgery will be required. I just don't think I could do that, seems wrong... but so is stabbing at someone.

    Did the attacker get what he deserved?
     
  2. Cathain

    Cathain Lily Lau Gar

    The way I see it is -

    First of all, I think after the guy tried to stab your friend in the face then it was morally right to take whatever action was necessary to render the assailant harmless (acceptable level of force in the interest of self-defense). If that meant choking him unconscious then so be it.

    However, once he has been rendered harmless that should have been it.
    To pound the guy's face repeatedly whilst he was unconscious is not something I would consider "honourable" or "morally just".
    He was simply venting his anger and rage in a revenge attack.

    Now that said, I can completely understand why your friend did this.
    I would be sorely tempted to do so myself.
    But that doesn't justify the actions.

    So I would say that your friend's actions were certainly understandable, but not morally justifiable.
     
  3. inthespirit

    inthespirit ignant

    Not sure what the law is on beating up on passed out people, but I would think it would be illegal and can no longer be claimed as self defense.

    Personally, I think its pretty shameful to beat someone up when they are out. If you've won, you've won, beating on a lifeless body proves nothing other that you got some murderous intentions and/or anger issues. I don't think its too uncommon though, seen this sort of stuff a few times before, though it usualy involves kicking and jumping. On top of that, its a stupid thing to do, you can quite easily kill someone in this sort of situation and then your most likely gonna be in trouble.

    I think I would have enough self control not to act in such a way and if someone did that to me, I think I would be ****ed off enough to seek some serious vengeance, legal and/or illegal.
     
  4. Cuchulain4

    Cuchulain4 Valued Member

    <<SNIP>>
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2008
  5. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    He went over the top. But that's easy for me to say.. I would have smashed his face into the pavement a few time maybe. maybe more?

    My mate recently got slashed / stabbed on the hand (a little before Christmas.) He's getting done too for hammering the guy. They are both getting done. But he didn't go anywhere near that level of violence.. The other guy came at him with a knife, my mate was unarmed, can't remember exactly how it kicked off now. Whether random or the guy tried to rob him, ah well, messy business eitherway.

    You know you could argue your mate contributed by having the weapon on him. The other guy was out of line but from that position you could argue he did the instinctive thing. They should both get some punishment. but it seems the other guy got his BIGTIME.

    Verdict - unreasonable force!
    Sentence: couple of weeks locked up and a fine
    :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2008
  6. Gong_Sau_Rick

    Gong_Sau_Rick ultimate WSL nutrider

    In Australia that's classed as assault since he was no longer a threat. I've had a similar thing happen with a friend.
     
  7. Gong_Sau_Rick

    Gong_Sau_Rick ultimate WSL nutrider

    But yes he deserved it. :D
     
  8. Hiroji

    Hiroji laugh often, love much

    Easy to say sat behind a computer in a quiet and calm room but i think he went too far.

    Having said that, if you just choke someone out in the street, then what should you do?

    Do you just run off and leave them? what if for some reason they dont wake up? they have some medical condition and they die? You could find yourself in the shizz. But if you hang around he might wake up and go for round two, KO you then smash your face in while your catching Zzzzs.
     
  9. Gong_Sau_Rick

    Gong_Sau_Rick ultimate WSL nutrider

    Oh this room is nowhere near quiet and calm. :D
     
  10. inthespirit

    inthespirit ignant

    Another thing is, the guy may have tried to stab your mate with the leatherman tool because he thought your mate droped it while trying to stab him. I'm guessing he would not have been able to see whats going on behind him while he was getting choked. If this is in fact the case, this makes the beating your friend dished out even more unnecessary, i.e. your mate produced a weapon and overreacted when the same weapon was used against him.
     
  11. Gong_Sau_Rick

    Gong_Sau_Rick ultimate WSL nutrider

    My position is that your friend did the wrong thing, he should of choked the guy unconscious and then called the police/ambulance.

    But, if you start a fight with someone you deserve whatever you get.
     
  12. path_one

    path_one steps taken

    I think what your friend done was absolutely perfect until the point of smashing his face in. Once the guy was KO'd he could have hit him a few times, I would understand that, but to the point of caving the guys face in? I know 30 odd punches can be thrown hard but to do so bare fisted you would have to put weight behind it especially as he was I'm guessing in GNP position. To be hitting him that much would take a good few seconds long enough to aknowledge what he was doing.

    I can understand rge taking over but if your friend was calm enough about it to hold the guy down and tell him not to resist and give the attacker a way out then the opposite end of this spectrum should've been a lot further away and harder to get to considering the attacker was out cold when the punishment was dealt.

    I don't believe I'm saying this but I feel sorry for the attacker!

    A good thing I think all martial artists need to remember and ponder on is the responsibility we have with the skills we have worked so hard to attain. Your average gimme your walet thug might only know how to have a half decent punch (walk) but have a really great (walk) in which case going OTT is uncaled for defuse the situation and get out of there. That's my honest opinion.
     
  13. path_one

    path_one steps taken

    Good point!
     
  14. Ciar2001

    Ciar2001 New Member Supporter

    Wrong once the guy was out he could have called the old bill, only problem is the fact he was tooled up probably meant they would have had words with him A) about the fight B) why he was carrying a tool, no old bill is going to believe his story when the attacker is out cold :/
     
  15. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Wrong in my book. Understandable but wrong.
    You have no idea why the guy attacked your friend.
    He could be mentally unstable, just had an argument with his wife, had his drinks spiked, having a diabetic hypo, lost his job, etc etc.
    While that doesn't excuse violence in ANY way I think it should make people stop and think about punishing the guy afterwards.
     
  16. Taffyleigh

    Taffyleigh Valued Member

    I think your friend went a bit over the top after the guy was out cold, but sadly rage can sometimes take over as it did in this case. Question is, did your friend get caught by the cops or leg it first? Sounds a bit dodgy why your mate was tooled up though!
     
  17. Saint_deshi

    Saint_deshi Valued Member

    Soooooo over the top.

    Was the guy actually that threatening or was he just giving it the talk? Seems to me your mate made the first PHYSICAL part of the attack!

    Now that may have been justified if he felt that threatened, but I've lived in the real world long enough to know that the kick in the nads would have put the guy down for more than long enough to walk calmly away and never worry about his sorry ass again!

    Even if the kick was so lame that it didn't have the full effect, from the resulting position it would be easy to put him in sufficient pain to not even want to follow.

    As for hitting him after he was unconcious. That's not just adrenalin, that's a lack of control and awareness of your opponent. At that point he was no longer the victim, he became the attacker. He's lucky that he stopped before finishing the guy!

    Just my opinion though.
     
  18. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Both should be arrested for assault.
    No matter how much of the "well I told him to leave me alone" plea.

    In the end he went beyond "reasonable force" to defend himself.

    Thats the law based in UK, I assume that it'll be the same or at least similar in Melbourne.
     
  19. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    I think you need a better reason than some idiot jumping you and then trying to attack you with your own knife.
     
  20. EternalRage

    EternalRage Valued Member

    Who knows flashlock, your friend may have tuned out sometime during the fight, or perhaps he just lost it at some point - in a high stress environment, where you just react, and the neutralize, once the brain has time to process what's going on, I'm willing to bet it's more than possible to not be able to handle the situation.

    Unfortunately, premediation might work against him, especially if his attacker gets a savvy lawyer, but you could just as easily argue mental instability following a traumatic event.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page