Slow vs someone manic?

Discussion in 'Brazilian Jiu Jitsu' started by JamesR, Sep 20, 2012.

  1. JamesR

    JamesR Valued Member

    Whenever I see higher grade BJJ players they are always very slow, very controlled feeling their opponent etc

    How would you manage that in a amatuer MMA setting where your opponent is just going nuts? Sort of like this:

    [ame=""]Amateur Cage Battle 1 - Andy Grierson vs Callum Gahgan [MMA] - YouTube[/ame]

    I realise it's no Gi so you cant get a grip as well but still, do you have no choice but to go crazy too? I find it hard to get submissions when the person is literally going nuts.

  2. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I try not to go too fast, that's when you make mistakes in BJJ. In MMA, I always get a good position first, then let them gas themselves out, THEN I'll punch/submit them.

    EDIT: And as a whole Amateur MMA is pretty gash.
  3. JamesR

    JamesR Valued Member

    My thoughts exactly lol

    But still, in my JJJ grappling comps i've had people who are controlled and I find that game easier if anything, then i've had people who go completely nuts and dont stop moving and fighting and throwing themselves anywhere who are harder to submit imo

    I think the best bet is to get them down and hold them in side control until they gas themselves out like you said.
  4. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    You can get JJJ grappling comps?

    I've never had problems with people who act crazy, just makes it easier IMO, because they make so many mistakes. Assuming they are useless at grappling of course. Purple belts at my school are downright scary when they move fast. xD
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2012
  5. JamesR

    JamesR Valued Member


    Catagories for JJJ comps are:

    Grappling (Same as BJJ comps)

    Continuous fighting - 1 minute kickboxing (medium contact) 1 minute judo style randori attempting throws - 1 minute ground grappling

    Random attacks - You opponent is shown what attack he is going to do to you, you dont know, he then does it and you react and you are scored on street effectiveness, speed, accuracy etc

    Empty hand kata and weapons katas also :)
  6. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    Only watched a minute or two at the start, personally didn't think that was nuts, easily managed with good base.
  7. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Yeah, it's not hard to control somebody who's going crazy. If they are frantically hitting you, then that is a bit of a problem. Haha
  8. JamesR

    JamesR Valued Member

    It's really annoying me now, I can't seem to handle people who go nuts.

    Try and keep them in guard, they just push upwards and roll me over basically. If this one person gets the mount on me, he puts his knees over my arms and traps me completely. Half guard with me legs wrapped around one of theirs they still manage to get out. I try and do things but since they are going so fast and moving all over the show I can't seem to. (This is sparring with 8oz grappling gloves for light strikes too so it's even worse)
    Dont know what's happening, against the slower people I can easily win but against new people who go berserk I can't stop them, really starting to annoy me.

    What is even more annoying is I am a lot larger and stronger than some of these people too, I don't know what's going on.
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2012
  9. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    Honestly,whilst I reckon that vid isn't that bad, I do know what you mean about going crazy and it's a handful at times.

    You're going to have to work on some basics perhaps, like appreciating knee line- that battle is key from all positions, once the knee line is passed all positions go to hell.

    Structure is also critical, if their body has straight lines break it by pulling/pushing. This takes out all their power. Eg in guard don't let them posture upwards by controlling arms and neck, and once you've secured them start opening your legs to clamp further up their back and start working subs like triangles/armbars.

    For your half guard look up submissions 101 Lockdown it's a sweet move for controlling with your legs allowing your arms a little time to figure out position.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2012
  10. JamesR

    JamesR Valued Member

    Not just that video, I agree that isnt THAT manic but some people do go absolutely crazy

    Thanks for your help on the video!
  11. Jabby Mcgee

    Jabby Mcgee Valued Member

    Although I've never competed in grappling (but do have some, although limited, experience in that area) I have competed a fair bit in boxing and muay thai, and I think that the same principles may apply here. For me, it's simply a case of breathing, and having patience. So many people, especially amateurs, are so gun ho, and so pent up with nerves, that they see it as being best to come at you in a flight of fury. This can be awkward to deal with (in my very fist boxing match somebody did this exact thing to me, and really took me by surprise). But, you must be patient, and wait until you see your shot. If you try to apply something when there is no opportunity to do so, not only will you fail to actually land anything, you will potentially leave yourself open to an attack, and will also gas yourself out if you do this repeatedly.

    A good fighter is one who knows his skills and his limitations. He knows when he needs to move, when he needs to attack, when he needs to defend, and when he can counter-attack. To a skilled fighter, someone coming in in a frenzy is a gift, as he will inevitably leave himself open to a counter-attack. The skill is to be able to recognise these counter-attacks, and monopolise on them.
  12. JamesR

    JamesR Valued Member

    But when someone is going crazy, I feel like I have no choice but to do the same frantically trying to counter them and stop them getting a better position.
  13. Sketco

    Sketco Banned Banned

    I find the best thing when fighting crazy people is to bait them. You push and they push back. Bait them with something to learn the timing of their twitchy reflexes then use that to lead them into a sweep or submission if you're on your back.

    Also yes, lockdown is key and you'll need to learn basic sweeps from it like old school and how to scoot between the legs and take the back.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2012
  14. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    I don't really know your background so don't take this personal but that's almost always due to a poor grasp of structure and base(on the ground) and footwork and angles(on the feet).
    Usually it's remedied by training against fully resistant opponents regularly (like half of every class regularly). If that doesn't do it, either the teacher isn't teaching decent basics of movement or the student isn't listening.
  15. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    He is taking JJJ.

    As for somebody going crazy, what I normally do is wait until they twitch, then try and improve my position as they are trying to escape. For example if they try and pass my guard, almost always a new person will try and get an under/over position on my legs. On a new person it's not difficult to pull the overhand and get a triangle.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2012
  16. Sketco

    Sketco Banned Banned

    Oh and if it's just grappling and you're flexible enough you can get crackhead control you can just let the person wear themself out a bit in that.
  17. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    10th planet much! Lol
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2012
  18. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    You need to learn proper guard retention, and how to break there structure.
    As youre bigger then everyone, there countering this by being faster.
    You can either match this. or just get technically better by studying BJJ / Grappling with better teachers.
  19. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    MAP is a forum with a section dedicated to disabled martial artists who deserve our full respect as equals working under tough conditions.

    As a result certain terms are unacceptable on MAP. In this case I am specifically referring to "fool," "spazzing out" etc which are terms of abuse aimed at people with cerebral palsy.

    I understand that some of you may not have been aware of this and presumable meant no offence, but please take it on board and avoid using such terms in future. :)

  20. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Maybe the phrase maladaptive tonic clonic could be used?

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