A man once said that in a fight between a 15st welder and an 8st Karate BB, put your money on the welder. Some say that in order to defend yourself effectively you need to know how to hit damn hard. Is this true or is it really down to technique?
The greater the difference in size, strength, and conditioning... the more skill a smaller person needs to defeat them. In most cases, I would pick the large welder over the small karate BB. Of course, weapons and real fight experience might easily tip the balance the other way. I have seen smaller men spank enormous opponents with ease, but this is the exception and not the rule.
all are important, a balance is recommended for effective self defense. another guy in another forum said it well. "Enough technique will defeat power. Enough power will defeat technique." best thing to have is enough of each.
Both responses so far sound about right to me. Thats why strength training is an important addition to any martial arts training.
Technique makes the most of what you have to work with. Training to maximize your physical potential gives you more to work with. If a smaller black belt is going in attacking vital targets and controls the set point, he/she is going to have a major edge. If the black belt is foolish enough to stand toe-to-toe with the welder, they may or may not be the one with less damage, but there is no way they could be considered "the winner" after it's over. At best, the one who lost the least.
If this is true, then my wife should stop spending her time in the dojang at this very moment. She's 5'2", and weigh around 105lb. I've seen her defeat guys twice (and more) as large as herself though, so I'd say technique does play a big part. On the other hand, if this guy had lifted her, pinning her arms along the side of her body, she wouldn't have had a lot of options... But, as they say... What go up, must come down, and then she'd hopefully be able to use her techniques again...
There's a whole "could a woman beat a man thread" that I won't revisit - but she probably "beats" them within the construct of learning a martial art.
Yes, I saw that thread and it was an interesting read. My point here though, is that my wife isn't strong, but she's got the skill to win. (And the attitude, we musn't forget the "headology"!)
Strength and skill are not equal. And their countering relationships is not proportional. The fact is that in most situations strength does tend to trump skill. There can be mitigating factors, strategy being the most important (see Kwan's post). However, in general, all things being equal strength will win out in the short run. As the gap between strength and skill begins to increase, in favor of skill, the tables slowly start to turn. But again, it isn't proportional. You need a LOT of skill to beat a stronger opponent. - Matt
like matt said, there is a point where strength just overwhelms skill. as well, even the bare minimum amount of skill plus bear-like strength is enough to overcome any amount of skill. this is proven in all aspects of life. heavyweight boxers are not necessarily more skilled than say middleweights. but the middleweights would be destroyed because the heavyweights still have the skill necessary to dodge the punches, and still crush the other man. another example is like our evolution. we were barely as skilled as say, a sabre tooth. but we had greater numbers and more powerful weapons, albeit wooden spears, then the sabre tooths. we won.
It depends a whole lot on the techniques involved. If someone who weighs 90 pounds can manage to throw a panther fist dead onto the throat of an opponent who weighs 250 pounds I would gladly put my money on the 90 pounder.
There's always the possibility of the lucky shot. But if that 250lb person is bearing down hard on that 90lber and the 90lber misses... somebody better get the number of that bus. Frankly this is one of the reasons I like weapons based art. Weapons are a great equalizer (though often over relied upon). Ultimately, a superior strategy and delivery system should win out (regardless of skill or strength). - Matt
-I have to disagree with Matt to an extent here. I weigh 250 lbs. and was a world class strength athlete. When you include attacks to vital areas, strength is not as much of a factor as some people make it out to be. Don't get me wrong, it IS a MAJOR factor, but it can be overcome a lot more easily by a highly skilled practitioner than most people seem to think. -In a way, I think that it's partially a backlash to all the years many martial artists preached that size, strength, and physical conditioning were not a factor and that good (or "my secret mystical") technique would always easily overcome. The reality lies somewhere in between. When it comes to sport (which I am not anti-sport, I just know it's pros and cons) and the intent and targets are not deadly, then size and strength are a MUCH greater factor. I know from experience that good technique coupled with good strategy can overcome pure power. -Of course, I also enjoy the fact that strength and size can be coupled with technique, strategy, speed and conditioning. They are not in opposition to each other. When I was a kid, I had good genetics and was naturally very strong. When I was starting to physically mature and began weight training, I did the common mistake of trying to muscle my way through things in spite of the fact that I was already a nationally ranked forms competitor. Luckily for me, one of my instructors was a world class heavyweight fighter. He took me aside and told me "keep focusing on technique and speed, be like a top lightweight. Go ahead and develop your strength. Your strength, size and power will always be there, but work on being a great technical fighter. That will make the most of your power and will make you a champion instead of being just another muscle head. Float like a butterfly and string like an F-14." I took that advise and it's served me well. Actually, when I went back home for some training, he goot after me again for slipping back too much into relying on my power and I am working on this again.
If the little guy was a judoka (cos i dont know anything about striking ma's), then i would bet on him/her, since we say at my club 'the bigger they are, the harder they fall'. But i know now you're all going to say that judo doesn't work in street fights. Oh well, just my thoughts.
I think it works, and they do have a higher center of gravity.. but they can bend you to their will quite easily. Very few moves allow near effortless control of a larger opponent..
Kwan, I actually think we're in agreement. I just may not have stressed my points well enough. I do think that in the end superior skill does beat superior strength. Otherwise I need to get out of the internal martial arts. But I also feel that it takes a while to get to that point. Strength as you suggest is the quick but limited solution. Skill is the slower but longer term winner. Even you noted that strength is over come by a "highly skilled" practioner. I'm a CMA practitioner and a big fan of attacks to vital areas. But, from personal experience, I know that under duress it takes a lot of practice to be able to hit them on a moving target. And I've met way too many "kids" (not necessarily in age but in martial experience) who are far to confident in their abilities to execute a one kick knee break or strikes to the groin which will immediately incapactiate the linebacker whose attacking them (heck I was one of them for a while... thank god I never got attacked by a linebacker during this phase). I'm definitely not the biggest guy and not blessed with the best genetics. So I've tried to maximize where I can. I have to rely on skill, strategy and training methodology. And I admit that I should be doing more strength training (I hope to soon). In the mean time I've had to learn how to bring my full 165lb frame to bare in hitting. Everything else in your post I agree with 100%! Ultimately is a combination of strength, strategy, skill and training that makes a champion (and not necessarily in that order). - Matt
I believe this once was true for Judo. I'm not sure how true it is any more. If they really believe that it all came down to skill, why did they introduce weight classes into competition? - Matt
