SKH Quest & Hatsumi's Bujinkan

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu Resources' started by kouryuu, Oct 18, 2006.

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  1. kouryuu

    kouryuu Kouryuu

    Gary, how about this, i think you said it yourself that you have some senior ranked Bujinkan people still training with Hayes, it would be quite easy for them to obtain the grades without the Admin in Japan ever knowing who they were for, then Hayes could tell everybody he still gets them! and by the way, i`ve seen his plaque, it was removed, it was thrown in the drawer next to the sink in the Hombu, it is still there at the back, i`ve been here for the last 3 weeks and it hasn`t moved!.
  2. garth

    garth Valued Member

    Why are there all these theories about how Mr Hayes is still obtaining these grades. Is it not possible that Dr Hatsumi is just sending the grades.

    Personally, is this is true, I find it deplorable and disgusting and NOT the mark of a so called martial arts master like Dr Hatsumi. If this is the work of Dr Hatsumi, then unfortunatly he has gone down in my opinion.

    Is this what is going to happen everytime someone leaves the Bujinkan, to have their plaque thrown in the draw next to the sink?

    I'm so glad i'm not in the Bujinkan.

    Gary Arthur
  3. Keikai

    Keikai Banned Banned

    but as you say he left, why should it be kept on the wall? or kept at all, it was Steve's choice to leave.
  4. Grimjack

    Grimjack Dangerous but not serious

    Why are you so scared to take the time to write and get a clear answer if you care so much? After all this time you have spent writing on this board trying to convince people that Steve really does get ranks from Soke, it seems strange that you would duck the issue when you get the chance to hear it straight from Japan. And after all that time you spent trying to get me to write to Steve instead of waiting for a public statement about how long he lived in Japan, now you really sound like you don't want to get an answer.

    I think you know that the answer is going to be that Steve is not getting ranks from Soke. And you fear that being the answer.

    And FYI, not everyone who has left the Bujinkan has had their tablet thrown into the sink. Only those folks that tell stories of great relationships with Soke when the truth is that there was a screaming match the last time the two got together.
  5. fire&steel

    fire&steel Valued Member

    I am sure Hatsumi sensei will have to take a sleeping pill tonight to over come his distress at your opinion of him and how he runs his dojo :D

    Yep !
    That is a far better fate than what would have befallen them prior to the Meiji restoration :D

    :eek: :p :love:
  6. garth

    garth Valued Member

    Grimjack posted
    I Have no problem writing, but who is this George Ohashi guy I am writing to.

    Is he Japanese?

    According to the web site I must write in plain English and then my e mail will be passed on to one of the Japanese.

    It also seems that the e mail address is in regard to ordered goods only, and not queries.

    Also if Dr Hatsumi is sending these Certificates directly to Mr Hayes, is it not Dr Hatsumi that should be contacted rather than a third party?

    Is there a good e mail address I can use to get this query answered.

    Gary Arthur
  7. garth

    garth Valued Member

    Grimjack posted

    Dr Hatsumi was having a screaming match? :eek:

    Gary Arthur
  8. Keikai

    Keikai Banned Banned

    i doubt he is, its done by admin.
  9. garth

    garth Valued Member

  10. fire&steel

    fire&steel Valued Member

    Please reread post #167. George is the Hombu Ayase admin and a Judan .

    Yes he is !

    If something requires being passed on it will be. If George can answer a question without bothering Soke or the Shihan he will if he deems it worth his time answering !

    It is for both.

    No if anyone has a genuine inquiry about anything they should ask George or one of the Shihan before bothering Soke with it !

    What exactly is your inquiry , pehaps we may well be able to give you the answer here ? yes the email for the Hombu Ayase Admin.
  11. xen

    xen insanity by design

    after much fuss and bother, just about :rolleyes:
  12. garth

    garth Valued Member

    Grimjack posted
    I have contacted Mr Ohashi, and Mr Ohashi has graciously replied. However Mr Ohashi has stated that

    This seems a fair point as I am NOT a Bujinkan member.

    He continues

    Which of course I have already done.

    It seems that the answer is more difficult to get than I imagined.

    Gary Arthur
  13. saru1968

    saru1968 New Member

    Not when you put it in context Garth.

    How many messages do you think he has recieved and answered the same question.

    Plus the fact he stated the situation on his BB board. So in fact by asking you've just not bothered reading his message.

    If Steve was of so high standing and still in then a) his plague would not be in the Bog area b) There would not have been a post on Honbu Admin site about it (and i'm sure you read that c) If the relationship was so close then I'm sure Steve would have picked up the phone.

    Unless of course, everyone including Norm's recent sighting is lying.
    The Honbu Admin is lying.
    Steve is not telling the truth.

    Certainly looks like choice three and remember your wager with Ben that if Steve was lying then you quit Toshindo.

    Can't understand why someone who obviously is so removed from the Bujinkan would continue to WANT to obtain grades, and really saying a Toshindo Shodan is equal to a Bujinkan Sandan!

    BTW Garth's whats your grade in Toshindo?
  14. garth

    garth Valued Member

    Saru posted

    Good point, but I was only doing what Grimjack advised me to do to get the truth. But the truth is not forthcoming.

    But thats not the point of the thread. the point is about whether Mr Hayes can still obtain Bujinkan certificates, NOT whether his plaque was still on the wall.

    We all know it got taken down months ago.

    But there has been no proof of any lies.

    Did we say that the plaque has not been taken down?

    I'm still waiting for his trip down to the Quest Dayton Dojo next year. remember he said he was too busy at the time.

    Wasn't there also an e mail you received from Mr Hayes. Remember all those comments about Mr Hayes time in Japan that no one thought you would get a reply to. Well it came.

    Personal choice I guess.

    Well based on the fact that there is no grading structure to the Bujinkan that could be about right.

    Black belt (one of only two in the UK, in To-Shin Do)

    Gary Arthur
  15. Grimjack

    Grimjack Dangerous but not serious

    I think the context may be very important indeed here.

    I find it a little strange that Garth did not post the whole response, just edited bits. Nor did he tell us what his question was exactly. After all the ways that Steve has twisted things like the definition of Westerner as well as not letting us know that the house he bought in Japan was on the far side of the country, I now pay attention to when things seem to be edited out like this.

    I am puzzled by the response

    Why is there no mention of a name? Just "the person" and "Your teacher" instead of "Mr Hayes"? Could it be that the question that Garth sent off never mentioned any names and merely asked if he could find out the status of people in the Bujinkan? ;) After all the silly questions that people that have not bothered to read his web site ask him, Ohashi-san might give a response like this.

    My suspicion is even greater after Garth tried to post a link to a Toshindo site to back up his claims of Steve getting ranks from Japan. That really did not help the issue of trust.
  16. garth

    garth Valued Member

    Grimjack posted

    Ok lets start with my original question. My e mail

    Mr Ohashi's reply

    My apology to Mr Ohashi

    After this Mr Ohashi did reply to me, and from tha e mail what is relevant to this thread, i.e does Mr Hayes receive Bujinkna certificates for his students is this quote from Mr Ohashi

    Hope this clears things up.

    Gary Arthur
  17. garth

    garth Valued Member

    Grimjack posted

    Actually seems we both got it wrong. I have since found out that Mr and Mrs Hayes lived for a long period of time in Tokyo during the early days. This would make sense due to Mr and Mrs Hayes work schedule.

    just trying to show that some people in To-Shin Do are receiving Bujinkan ranks.

    Gary Arthur
  18. saru1968

    saru1968 New Member

    FYI Garth most students I know use a grading structure, the most common being TCJ.

    So i take it your 'Blackbelt' is Shodan then?
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2006
  19. garth

    garth Valued Member

    Saru posted
    Yet others do not. I believe Grimjack himself, although fourth dan had not heard of the ten Chi Jin Manual. I also have 3 copies and each one is different.


    Gary Arthur
  20. saru1968

    saru1968 New Member

    Well i can only speak for those i've come across in the Uk and I can't think of one that does not use a grading syllabus for 9th Kyu- Yondan but there might be some, no idea overseas.
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