size matters

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by mai tai, Sep 28, 2005.

  1. Garibaldi

    Garibaldi Valued Member

    Ha I actually agree with you on something on this thread.

    Listening to each others opinons is great, but once you've heard the same comment 3 times it starts to get a bit dull.
  2. IrishStomp

    IrishStomp Valued Member

    Ok, so agreeing with everyone else basically I think that size is a factor but isn't everything. But, I think there's more to it than just bigger is better. I bet there are situations where a 5'10 175lbs guy (my size) could take out a guy 6'3" 230lbs guy, but at the same time, the 5'10" guy wouldn't be able to take out a 6'7" 300lb guy but the 6'3" guy might be able to take him out, even though he was beat by the 5'10" guy. I think any fighter should get as muscular and strong as they can before it starts hurting their flexibility and fighting ability, and then just maintain strength. Also, I'd say height is an advantage because of reach, and strength is an advantage as well. So, I think whoever's got the reach and strength is gonna have the advantage. This is basically almost always the taller/bigger guy.
  3. mai tai

    mai tai Valued Member

    let me get this clear. i gained speed (alot as i got much stronger) when i went from 160 to 180. as i got past 180 i got a little stronger but not as much. so i lost a little speed. it also put me in a higher weight class (with bigger people...amd trust me its NOT easier to fight them.

    sure i lost some speed after 180. but this is because i am only 5'10" and have a light frame. if i was 6'2" i would probable contine to get faster with increased strength until i hit 240 or so. and i would hit much harder and have a much greater reach.
  4. mai tai

    mai tai Valued Member

    dead solid on..... in my opinion.

    also i tend to find that guys who are over about 6' 5" start to get alittle uncordinated. so...6'8 guys can get beat by 6'3 guys.......however even dorky they tend to over welm the 5 10 guys......this aint just MA but most sports.(accept basketball wich is very hieght dependent)



    Royce Gracie didnt get overwhelmed by Chad Akebono. Royce is alot closer to 5'10 than 6'3". His height listing ranges from 6'0 to 6'1", however according to his students he is somewhere inbetween 5'11 and 6'. Gracie weighs no more than 180lbs. He wasn't overwhelmed by Akebono. In fact the fight lasted two minutes. So your generalization has been proven wrong. Another point is the fact that Gracie and Akebono are both fairly skilled in their respective arts. Skill is equal, height is not, weight is not. By your logic Akebono should annihalate Gracie.

    (sarcasm up ahead) Wait...wait I forgot BJJ is a superior MA. Ok no problem, lets sign Akebono up for some BJJ lessons, with his size he'll have an absolute advantage over everyone else. Hold on a sec...what? He cant learn BJJ...gee I cant imagine why, whats holding him back? Gosh could it be the very thing that you guys claim is an advantage?

    A fighter can never be to fast, I've never heard of a guy being to fast to learn. A fighter cannot have too high of a strength/weight ratio. A fighter cannot be to coordinated. I've never heard of good reflexes being a dissadvantage. If size is truly an advantage and a good thing, than well you can never have to much of it? Size is a tainted advantage. You can never be to fast, but you can become to big. You can be to tall and gawky, but you can never become to skilled. All you guys are claiming I'm listing extremes. Well fine, but you name me one guy who was to fast to be a good fighter and I'll be quiet. Speed is an absolute advantage, Skill is an absolute advantage, Coordination. These are all good things that you cannot have to much of. Size and height are not absolute advantages.
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2005
  6. shawk1

    shawk1 New Member

    Remy bonjasky also beat akebono with a flying knee strike .cro cop aslo shatter the eys socket of bob sapp the supposed beast. cro cop is a far superior fighter as is bonjasky
  7. Taliar

    Taliar Train harder!

    No its a generalisation, which means it applies in general and that it allows for and excepts that it is not always going to be true and that there will be exceptions to the rule. BUT IN GENERAL being large gives you an advantage.

    Yet again you show you don't understand the idea of generalisation.
  8. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal


    Because this one time, at band camp, this little man beat up a big man!


    I really wouldn't bother replying to this thread but it fascinates me to why many people think being bigger isn't an advantage.

    And please consider the word advantage, it doesn't mean to say the bigger person will win! Its only the same as saying being more skillfull is an advantrage or being faster is an advantage.
  9. ColdRedRain

    ColdRedRain New Member

    Personally, the tall, big guys don't scare me. I know with the taller, larger guys, I can usually stoop down and apply foot sweeps and low roundhouses so they fall down, but the bowling ball types, the short, stocky guys are the ones that I'm really afraid of. Their lower center of gravity can and will take down a taller opponent when they go for a takedown.

    For those of you that follow gridiron football, I'll give you examples of power rushers. Your ideal power halfback is 230-250 lbs, but only 5'10", like Jerome Bettis. The reason why is because the tall defensive linemen have a higher center of gravity than he does and with his lower center of gravity, he can simply bowl them over.

    However, somebody who is big and tall like Jim Kleinssasser of the Minnesota Vikings usually gets tackled the first time people touch him, despite the fact that he outweighs Jerome Bettis by 50 lbs.

    He's taller and has a higher center of gravity. He can be toppled easier because there's simply alot of man to tackle.
  10. Sifu Shen Fon

    Sifu Shen Fon New Member

    Absense of Martial Thinking...

    :confused: Yes,it is facinating,considering Martial Artists should understand why being bigger isent an advantage.

    As for football and power rushing, Its only useful for football.
    A power rusher would get his butt knocked out in two seconds flat against a smaller Martial Artist.Also football players use brute strenth,but dont know how to control it,epecialy for fighting.

    I meant no offense to anyone earlier in the thread as i respect you all equaly as Martial Artists and im sorry if i made any spelling errors,i dident have time to type my post properly because i had to get to my job quickly.

    For some of you who arent quite grasping the concept of my writings on the size advantage ill write another to clear up any misconceptions or anything confusing having to do with it.

  11. Sifu Shen Fon

    Sifu Shen Fon New Member

    He's got the right idea. ;)
  12. mai tai

    mai tai Valued Member

    as far as fighting ...i guess to each is own.

    as far as the football. im going to start a thread in the off topic area. please look it up and coment
  13. Sifu Shen Fon

    Sifu Shen Fon New Member


    He's got the right idea. ;)
  14. ColdRedRain

    ColdRedRain New Member

    It has alot to do with fighting. Look at Royce Gracie. He's short, but shaped like a cannonball. He's probably the best takedown artist in history. There are videos of him taking down kung fu guys that were at least 5 inches taller than him, but had slighter builds.

    I used gridiron football as an example because that's a sport that can be related to takedowns that I'm most familliar with. The game is just one large BJJ match on a chess board and a ball.
  15. Ikken Hisatsu

    Ikken Hisatsu New Member

    err I would hardly call Royce a cannonball build. I remember when he first fought without a gi in ufc, he stated before that he had been working out in the gym so that people wouldnt laugh when he took his shirt off.
  16. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    But, would Royce be a better fighter if was a bit bigger? ;)
  17. ColdRedRain

    ColdRedRain New Member

    No he wouldn't be a good fighter because he'll have to change his style if he's bigger. He's a takedown artist. Takedown artists are ideally short and stocky because they have a lower center of gravity. IMHO, he would kill Ernesto Hoost if he dodged Hoost's long reach (Which is pretty simple for a guy of 5'7" to do).

    However, if Royce was fighting somebody of his height and who had more muscle to his frame, he would get owned. Height is really a non factor when it comes to fighting and it can be a detriment at times. Weight is everything.
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2005
  18. Vanir

    Vanir lost my sidhe

    I knew this real nasty little piece of work once, one of those teenagers that just searches for the wrong thing to do all the time, so he told me.
    He and a bunch of his 16-year old mates got annoyed with a few of the massively built bouncers at a local dance club. Being the kind of guys they were they'd previously managed to gain access to all the private areas and this one particular night they got on the roof, where they found a waterlogged double-mattress. They peered over the edge and saw the bouncers standing in front of the main door, right below over went the mattress.
    He says it flattened them instantly, the waterlogged mattress took all of them to lift and he was probably pretty lucky nobody had their neck broken. However there was definitely no question those guys were out for the count after the several storey dump.

    I thought it an excellent example of a typical street fight. Half a dozen 100lb teenagers: 1. A trio of 300lb bouncers: 0.
  19. mai tai

    mai tai Valued Member

    i totally and completely disagree. hight is a huge factor. thats way most fighters are stil kinda lanky. (even when they are large and muscular) especally true of MT

    takedowns do not favor short guys. some short guys can be good at it and some tall guys can.

    btw gracie was 6' tall, and also not that great at takedowns....yes his ground game was great. his takedowns were fair but hardly at the level of the world class wrestlers that came later.

    some great take down guys....marc kerr 6'3, mark coleman 6'1"

    advantage to the take downs
    use there longer arms too keep you away from the legs
    use leverages of longerarms and legs to manipulate you...while keeping you off there body.

    if nhb rule use you head as a knee bag while in the clinch

    advantages of the short and stocky.

    hard to throw.
    low center of gravity. (though not as great as you would think cause a tall guy can always squat down while a short guy cant grow longer arms.)
  20. mai tai

    mai tai Valued Member

    also if you were going to use football as an example you have to consider both sides of the ball.

    while running backs are shorter...there job is to stay up.....however the job of doing the taking down.....the linebackers....they tend to be about 6'3"

    so as far as an anology that ones kinda even.

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