What is everyone's take on an instructor not allowing a student to study at any other dojos? I have read that traditional karate seemed to require allegiance to a single dojo, but what about now? I have also read that one of the masters stated that shuri-te, naha-te, and tomari-te were all really the same stylistically, but it was the various masters that taught them differently, via different katas, and emphasis on different aspects. This implies that the underlying combat techniques are the same, but the path to discovering them can be quite different. I consider myself a beginner because I have been away for well over a decade. I have run across an instructor that requires dedication to only his dojo and an other that is open. Again what is everyone's opinion on this? Is this still common, or is this simply closed-mindedness. Please note that in both cases these instructors are legitamate 8th dans in their respective styles and have each been involved with martial arts for over 30 years each at the very least. I believe I have already formed my own opinion, but would like to hear other perpectives. thanks, Noodle
My opinion is that a dojo master who prohibits his students from training in other dojos/gyms has something to hide. I believe that while discipline in the dojo is important, remember that YOU are paying HIM to instruct you. He should not have a say in how you spend your time outside of training. And by crosstraining your skill will improve, so anything he can say about it being bad for your ability is also false. I would be wary of an instructor telling me where I should train.
Whilst I believe that you should not be forbidden to train in MMA, I disagree with the attitude that we are "customers" and therefore allways right. When you take on the responsibility of teaching someone, you are also responsible to some extent for what that person does with what you teach them. There is a savate class near me which takes on students for a trial period of 4 weeks, at the end of which THEY decide whether they are willing to continue teaching you. I see nothing wrong with this attitude.
FYI: The argument on the side of the single dojo only master is that he has so much to teach that the student will constantly stay busy. (or something close to this) noodle
Sounds like insecurity to me. Imagine buying a car, a BMW say - and only being allowed to buy it on condition that you don't drive any other makes. Sounds ludicrous right?
I am just playing devil's advocate here, but as a teacher of a traditional martial art, perhaps he wants to ensure that the art stays pure to the way it was devised. Kind of like not selling a Van Gogh if you thought the person buying it was planning to paint over a bit he didn't like.
Ooh! Good question Noodle. Try not to be too hard on those demanding unquestioning allegiance, as there are two main reasons for this (in addition to all said already). One is that it was what they were told, and they seek to honour the teachings of their teachers. The other is that, they genuinely believe a student should show dedication rather than dilution of their efforts. It's up to the student, however dificult they may find it, to judge whether the style/instructor/organisation/whatever merits such dedication. Ask the question before committing. If you don't get a satisfactory answer................
Depends on what you want to get out of it, and what the instructor wants to teach you. If they want to teach you a specific style, training in something else is counterproductive to that goal. The movements are different, the postures are different, etc. Look at it like a dance class. The instructor teaches a specific style of dance, you start going to a different, but similar school and learning there as well. You will be getting different stylisitc elements from each. Could make you stick out a little with one group when you're doing things slightly different. I don't like that mentality, I believe everyone is different and should express themselves, not someone else. But others believe different. Or it could just be that he doesn't want you to check out the competition and find something better....
One adult, prohibiting another adult from associating (training) with anyone else (a dojo) should bring up some serious red flags. His reason for his prohibition, is stupid and just bs. If it were true, then let his teaching speak for himself. IOW, abandon the prohibition and let him keep you busy, too busy and satisfied to venture elsewhere. Now, him requesting that you don't train elsewhere, lest it confuse you, as two different instructors will have completely different visions of you, is another thing. That's fine, as it leaves it up to you. Also, if this fellow tells you, that he prefers not to teach anyone who simultaneously trains elsewhere, and will not teach you, should he find out that you are cross training at another dojo, that's ok too. It's ok, because again, it leaves it up to you. You can decide whether or not you want to remain with him or not, and he has made you aware, in advance of what is required for tuition at his place. You can make an informed decision. (as for me, I'd walk, but that's me.) this notion that it's tradition to stay with one and only one instructor is complete bunk! Funakoshi ( Student of several people, but mainly Azato and Itosu) sent Nakayama to Mabuni to learn kata. Mabuni recommended Manzo Iwata to Seiko Fujita to learn ninjutsu and Nanban Sato Ryu Jujitsu. Mabuni had two main teachers, Itosu and Higaonna, but also trained with Gokenki and Seisho Arakaki. Nagamine trained with Several people (Kyan, Arakaki, and others) Itosu (teacher of Mabuni and Funakoshi) trained with Matsumura and Nakahara. And the list goes on and on and.... Rob
Thanks for the feedback. I agree with the position that this is the decision of the student. As more background info in case this is useful or of interest to anyone: I was the one that asked the question of both instructors before committing to a dojo. I was interested in a traditional Karate but also jujitsu. As a last aspect I considered spending one day a week involved in something that would condition my legs (not necessarily another martial arts). I asked instructor A about cross training at another dojo in another style and he said he had no problem with it but did express a concern that many students have trouble keeping things straight. When I asked instructor B he stated that if I joined his dojo, then it would not be okay. Keep in mind that I spent some time beforehand with both instructors getting to know them and their dojos first. Both instructors are credible in the community and great martial artists. My original feeling about this before this occurred was that students have the responsibility to decide. After this, instructor B disappointed me greatly by this position and I knew immediately that I would not join his dojo. As further info, while getting to know instructor B, he seemed very focused on building his business. He owned several dojos and was excited about expanding. He clearly had a passion for his art, but I got the impression (maybe incorrectly) that more of his attention was on the business aspect. This feeling that I had made me think that his position on non-crosstraining was so that he could grow teachers for his dojos. He is a great person and obviously knows what he is talking about and he is known and credible in the community. It is unfortuneate because I would have really liked to have studied with him. In any case, I had previously decided that if both instructors were to not allow the cross-training, then I would go with instructor A. This was simply because he projected his style. He answered every question I had with enthusiasm for his art. Instructor A presented himself as being all about bettering the individuals skill. Instructor B had many, if not all, the same qualities, but they were diluted by his focus on the business. Final note: Again both instructors are 8th dans in their respective styles. Instructor A only had the one dojo that I know of, but does classes and seminars all over. Instructor A appears to work with all his students directly. Instructor B has several dojos and holds additional classes at other locations. Most of Instructor B's time is spent with black belt students. Other lower level black belt instructors work with pre-black belt students in most cases. I had already made up my mind on this a little while ago, but wanted to see how others responded. Thanks. Hope my info helps other people with similar thoughts or situations. ~noodle
