Simultaneous block and punch

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Mike Flanagan, Feb 13, 2003.

  1. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

  2. Martial Sloth

    Martial Sloth New Member

    hey Mike, isnt the concept of simultaneous blocking and striking an attribute or characterisitc of Wing Chun?
     
  3. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    I'm sure it is, but that doesn't mean other people can't use it too.:)

    In fact I'm sure it was a regular attribute of karate before it became 'simplified for the masses'. The techniques I've demonstrated can be seen in several karate kata (I presume you could view the video clips OK? that was my first attempt at putting video clips on the web).

    The defence against a round punch can be seen as an application of the first movement of Pinan Shodan, Pinan Yondan or Kusanku. The defence against a straight punch could be the second movement of Pinan Shodan, one of the movements from Passai Sho, or even just the chamber position for gedan-barai (downward block).

    Of course, practitioners of modern karate will rightly argue that they do some simultaneous techniques too. My defence against a straight punch is very similar to a technique employed in competition karate on a regular basis.

    Speaking of the chamber position of gedan-barai, a lot of people don't seem to realise that is often the chamber for 'classical karate blocks' that it is the actual blocking. The completion of the technique shows what you do after you've blocked.

    Mike
     
  4. johndoch

    johndoch upurs

    Good video clips Mike.

    I ve seen these blocks/strikes in a few MA's we train similar techniques in our club and build on them by adding various entries, combinations, locks and takedowns.

    I've heard that its from wing chun and theFilipino MA but I would rather stay away from that argument.
     
  5. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    Thanks. Frankly it amazes me how good the quality of the video is. The camera was only £350, plus £100 for various peripherals, and its basically broadcast quality. It copes really well with poor lighting conditions too.:)

    I'm sure they feature in lots of martial arts, they're not rocket science after all. The more I look at different arts the more I see the same principles and techniques repeated over and over. Whether they originated in one place and spread around, or whether they arose spontaneously in different arts is often a difficult question, but its not one I'm terribly worried about.

    If we are talking about the arts of China, Okinawa and the Phillipines then judging by their geographical proximity and the fact that those cultures have had contact with each other for hundreds of years, it seems that some cross-fertilisation of martial arts is likely. We know this for a fact with regard to China and Okinawa.

    Having looked briefly at historical European martial arts, I found that the oriental martial artist can find much s/he is already familiar with - Judo throws in 16th century German texts for example. It seems unlikely that there was any cross-fertilisation in this instance, so the techniques probably arose independently. After all, it's the same human body all over the world, so people will have found similar methods of traumatising it.

    Mike
     
  6. TkdWarrior

    TkdWarrior Valued Member

    Mike the quality of video is amazingly good
    which camera u used mike?

    i think i missed the part of blocking n striking simulataneously in CKD thread??didn't understand why u need to show those clips??

    i hav seen lots of drills which does with those concepts ...and i think the concept of blocking n striking simulataneously doesn't differ in much way.
    -TkdWarrior-
     
  7. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    Panasonic NV-DS29B Digital Camcorder.

    It stemmed from a discussion I was having with amiller on the CKD thread about power generation. A description of the technique clearly hadn't been sufficient to get the idea across to Jimmy when he and I had discussed it some months ago, although I had put some pictures in the picture gallery on this site to demonstrate the point. So I thought a video would be a clearer way to demonstrate the principle, as well as giving me yet another chance to play with my new toy.

    I agree.

    Mike
     
  8. TkdWarrior

    TkdWarrior Valued Member

    oh i understood... that's good enuff reason :D
    -TkdWarrior-
     
  9. Sonshu

    Sonshu Buzz me on facebook

    Hi Mike

    Well I would say it is comon sence to do a 2 for the price of 1 manover and styles that dont explore this really do miss out...

    It does not have to be part of your style but its a good bet - also in the hook punch demo (Other one did not work) it looks passive - so on CCTV you will appear the less aggressive!

    NICE ONE!

    SONSHU
     
  10. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    Re: Hi Mike

    Hi Sonshu

    That's a good point, and one which I hadn't thought of. Although I will confess that I usually do this with more forward momentum, so I imagine that would look more aggressive. But your point is well worth bearing in mind.

    Thanks,

    Mike
     
  11. amiller127

    amiller127 Chief Instructor

    Hi Mike

    I only managed to get one of the videos working.

    The simultaneous block and counter isn't something that we teach in CKD, but our techniques can be adapted to do it. The CKD blocks tend to have a movement away from the attack to get the head away from the attack, so we would have to adapt the blocks to apply this to a CKD technique.

    I wouldn't mind seeing some other examples.
     
  12. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    Hi Dale

    Which one could you see, the round punch or the straight punch? I'm a bit puzzled by that, the format of each should be the same. I'll have to have another look at them both myself.

    I'll see if I can film some in the dojo tonight. Would you like to see follow-up techniques as well, although this will increase the size of the files?

    Mike
     
  13. amiller127

    amiller127 Chief Instructor

    I could only get the first one working. I think it was for the hook. Its showing up as an error in finding the video clip so you may want to make sure that you are linking to the right area.

    I wouldnt mind seeing more examples and if you want to include follow ups thats fine by me. I use a college computer with ultra fast broadband to download so im fine no matter what size.

    Dale
     
  14. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    Hi Dale

    I took some footage of a few simultaneous blocks and counters last night. I didn't do any follow-ups, instead I got my partner to wear some body armour so I could actually punch him in the body. So all of my strikes are to the body, in reality I would often prefer to strike the head.

    The file is 5 meg, you can find it at the bottom of this page...

    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mikeflanagan/simultaneous2.html

    I also fixed the problem with the other mpeg you couldn't view. Apparently I can't spell the word 'simultaneous'....

    Mike
     
  15. shadow joe

    shadow joe seeker of truth

    the wing chung system does use simulataneous blocking and countering...



    I think a lot of systems too, always in Muay Thai class we'll practice techiques like parry a cross and slip a body blow...



    how many people here train with simultaneous defense and counters?



    JOE
     
  16. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    I train in WC, so I do :)

    I think it should be a part of everyones training
     
  17. TkdWarrior

    TkdWarrior Valued Member

    how many people here train with simultaneous defense and counters?

    does it surprises u if i tell u we do it in TKD :D
    -TkdWarrior-
     
  18. iolair

    iolair Mostly Harmless

    Simultaneous blocks and counters? Yes, but only once the students have good form in the individual techniques.
     
  19. Ozebob

    Ozebob Valued Member

    Never.. it may look simultaneous but I believe its better to receive and strike with very little time lag.
     
  20. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    I don't think its something that should be avoided as wrong. It can be simultanious, slightly after or even before. In boxing anything goes. I think martial arts often tries to over define things as right or wrong.
     

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