So the answer to the question "how do you train Silat effectively?" was pad up and hit each other. Who'd have guessed?
There are other answers out there, but apparently non-silat practitioners have a better view on how silat people should train... I prefer to hold on to the silat specific training that could be made effective against just about any MA i have seen, be it Judo, Muay Thai, BJJ, Boxing etc. If everyone can make Silat effective on the street, is doubtful, i guess, it's as someone already mentioned, dependent on the person not the style (well perhaps partly)
No-one's saying otherwise. Again you're not understanding what's actually being said. A) looking at the finger again. We are talking about universal ideas. Indeed these are ideas utilised by many Silat practitioners. B ) Making gross assumptions about our experience. Pretty much anyone who's done Kali part of Inosanto JKD will have done Silat whether they realise it or not. Then the training being utilised is deficient, and contrary to your assertion that technique is paramount when it comes to the crunch it's attributes that are decisive (otherwise the outcome would be the same regardless of practitioner).
Also, most of us have been where you are now. We all did barehanded drills and barehanded sparring, it's not like we don't know what you're talking about or what you mean. Learn from our experiences of developing functional application training for traditional martial arts
Ok I want to prevent getting into a second round of disputes on this, but to answer some of your remarks one more time: A) So you are saying these ideas are already being practiced in a lot of silat schools? Good for them, but if that's the case, then there is nothing wrong, from your perspective, with the practicality of silat is it? B) I'm really sorry but having trained the kali part of Inosanto JKD doesn't count that much for actually having trained silat. Silat is more than just a puter kepala, sapu or beset. It's a whole methodology about how to move, generate force, hit, kick etc. Have you ever seen or tasted any proper indonesian Cimande, Harimau or Serak or malaysian Gayong? Perhaps you did and then i will have to eat my words but silat bits and pieces in kali? Doesn't cut it for me. What i meant with my last statement about not everyone making silat effective is: You still need to train hard enough, believe in your system, have the proper mentality etc.etc. many more to make it work all the time on the street. Sure you should be able to defend yourself against a drunk fool in a couple of months, but no it's not a magical system. No system is magic in that. The reality is you always need to put in the hours. Be it JKD, Kali, Silat, Muay Thai or KungFu or any RBSD. One added remark: since i am no native english speaker i often notice that sentences are being misunderstood. My english is quite reasonable but the subtleties of the language (like grammar) i still fail to grasp. I hope you understand.
Ok that's cool. I might try parts of the drill you shown, in our own way. So that already is quite a win
Yeah, I guessed English wasn't your first language which is why I've been pretty patient with you. There are very few legitimate martial arts that are inherently impractical. However the practicality of those arts need to be unlocked with practical training practices. I think this is the biggest area of disconnect in this discussion. I'm not saying you need to change WHAT you do, but HOW you practice it. Your "where's the Silat?" comments are the giveaway here. What we're saying is you need to train your Silat techniques/combos/strategies using a similar training model. Yes, it's not like they're that uncommon here.
I'd agree that my overall understanding of silat is limited, despite having spent time in an Inosanto kali curriculum. I've done bits and pieces, but nothing I'd label as "experience in silat." That said, we're talking about pretty universal principles. Logically, IF you can't do the actual thing in practice (e.g., killing someone with a knife), then what you're doing is a simulation. And, as such, it winds up leaving a lot of room for interpretation and abstraction. So, to my mind, you use a variety of different simulations. By coallating what you learn through various simulations, you get more information on what reality might actually be like. Simple as that really.
I'm hardly claiming that we're all experts in Silat, just pointing out we're not ignorant of it either. However that was an auxiliary point anyway.
This isn't a counterpoint. It's a deflection. And I sincerely hope that we can all elevate our discussion above the need for this sort of tactic. Trying to be dismissive of people's points because they don't train in silat is a poor substitute for addressing the actual point being made. Now, I believe you have valuable things to say on the subject. But, again, I really hope that this forum doesn't do what other forums here have done, attempting to have anyone from other styles essentially ejected from participation.
I think it's also important to note my critiques - an indeed everyone elses - were entirely connected to the best way to train self-protection not for Silat Two very different issues
Just to get a bit of reference how older Silat practitioners look at training silat efficiently (I understand things are different now): http://www.martialhub.com/articles/kneefel.htm
An interesting read, but I'm not sure what it says about training. Unless you're breaking arms and crushing tracheas in training (unlikely) then you're making compromises somewhere, so it comes down to what compromises are better to make?
well the thing is this 2 sided attitude (being friendly and peaceful, but also going to the max once in danger) is very much part of silat and still is there in some styles. Some styles used to train this by training altered mental states like trance. This is different from the mental attitude you get from most sparring exercises. In this subject there is another interesting article on it: http://www.martialhub.com/articles/turpijn.htm Pak Turpijn was a very famous silat teacher in Europe, in the previous century.
It's virtually impossible to train that in any kind of technique drill. Focused NLP training coupled with the kind of high pressure scenario work I showed earlier is probably the best way to develop it. As intimated in the article, it's more a product of living in a dangerous society than any training. It's not a unique principle, it's in the 7 core principles of Nan Sil Lum that I learned (indeed many of them such as decision, action and cruelty apply directly to this idea).
OK, the second article says that his internal training allowed him to be hit by a Golok in training and not be injured, so I'm going to take it with a pinch of salt....
Yes you would of. Because of the really strong influence of Chinese 'kun tao' systems on a lot of Silat (and indeed roots of in case of some of them) - Particularly the west Javanese systems like Cikalong, Cimande, Betawi etc.
