Discussion in 'Silat' started by Combat Sports, Nov 30, 2012.
From the little I've seen it is a hugely diverse art.
Have you trawled the silat section of MAP?
Looks like good stuff, an interesting mix. If you ever do become interested in karate, feel free to pm me. Lots of interesting things, with a lot of emphasis on efficiency.
Who's the instructor there that teaches grappling? I didn't see anyone who had any ranks in BJJ or competitive records...
I am primarily going to focus on Jun Fan, but it's all part of the same curriculum there.
Sifu Hatch has a purple belt in BJJ. But I study BJJ at a different school.
Don't want to derail this thread any further, but I had the conversation about the schools in my area and what I chose to study here if you guys want to chime in:
Personally, as a Silat student, I didn't see much Silat in the videos. But you also have to remember, Silat is not just forms. In fact, its (at least as my GM teaches me) completely fluid to the point of being indistinguishable. I do almost no kicks or leg movement at all unless its to break an ankle or knee cap. (Which obviously you can't do in MMA)
In the silat I do, Kun Tao, Betawi, and Penchak, I don't really block. Every strike is a counter and every counter is a strike.
The one thing I did see that reminded me of Silat is this... In Silat, intimidation means a lot. We get in close. My GM says, no one should fit a credit card between me and the opponent. In the first video you saw, he was all up in the other guys face. That freaks people out. That was the most "Silat" thing I saw.
Part of the reason my Silat training is fluid is I also do Modern Precas, Tibetan Snakefist, and some forms of Kung Fu, so at any point, my GM always tells me I need to be able to switch up, and throw the opponent off.
Actually it's perfectly legal. It's just not that easy.
Gotcha. Believe it or not Chadderz, I don't even watch MMA
And I also know that there are about 500 forms of Silat, some of which do involve kicks.
Betawi, for me, is basically bull defence. Dealing with a massively larger opponent.
Kun Tao is very fluid motion. I do push hands blind folded with my GM.
Penchak... I'm pretty sure it means lightning. Its rapid strikes. And integrated with snakefist means stun, disable, disarm, maim/kill. So, like nose strike, throat, wrist snap, put them on the ground and the famous Silat knee to the groin, throat, or eye gouge...
Its such a kind art!
That's cool man. You really should though, it's the best example of how to deal with people who are trained to fight.
Lucidz, I'm quite sure that Penchak is a variation of the original words Pencak or Pentjak (old writing). Usually Penchak is associated with the french schools of silat, since they pronounce it like that.
So where do you train? In France or somewhere else?
You know what
You're absolutely right. My GM trained under Dan Inosanto and Willem de Thouars (uncle bill)
I'm actually on US West Coast though, but the lineage is from France.
Good call mate!
I was taught pencak is the artistic aspect of the art rather than the martial aspect, I was also taught that indonesian silat are known as pencak, and the malaysian silat refer to this artistic aspect as seni.
I think pencak and penchak is the same I could be wrong though I think it is just pronunciation. I think this because the silat I started studying is called or spelt Cimande but when my teacher pronounces it he says chimande also when he says pencak he says penchak but I usually see it written as pencak. I'm not sure but I think maybe indonesian pronounce the letter "c" as we would pronounce "ch" in English.
again I could be wrong, i'm just sharing information from what I've learnt so far.
In Holland if we refer to 'pentja' or 'pentjak' we usually refer to old-school pencak silat (without sparring or IPSI influence, strictly as a killer-art).
Pencak Silat actually is a rather recent name to call the indonesian styles. Older name is 'mencak' or 'maenpo'. But usually in the past people would refer to the name of the style like 'Cimande' or 'Cikaret' or 'Syahbandar'. To call a style 'pukulan pencak silat Cimande' or 'pencak silat bela diri cikalong' for instance, is a recent development from after the 1950's.
I have heard so many explanations on the meaning of the words 'pencak silat', translated as 'tricky fighting' or 'pencak' for the art and 'silat' for the fighting. I don't know what the original meaning was..
Writing it like 'penchak' is actually an error, but people got used to it in France
I would DEFINITELY say that my Penchak is more of a killer form. I don't even do Jurus in it. (I do in Kun Tao).
Its strictly strikes and death kills. Basically almost Jeet Kun Do fast hits and soft tissue strikes... So maybe I'm doing an older form of it that just got mis-pronounced thanks to France?
OH: Edited to add, the "tricky fighting" things makes so much sense!! I'm doing 9 types of martial arts right now, and as I think I mentioned earlier, my GM enforces on me that I must be both ambidextrous but also switch stances and styles. He says, most fighters have 3 moves. He calls what I'm doing "tools in the toolbox". And if I have more, I already win.
ETA One last time.. heh. I can't spar with Penchak.
Interesting lucidz. Just out of interest, how long have you been training and have you had any necessity/opportunity to test out any of your stuff in combat?
If not, have you any ideas on how to get comfortable with using your training before you meet an actual opponent?
Hi LFD. I've been doing all MA for about 6 years. I'm doing this specific combination of systems for about 7 months.
Unfortunately, I have actually used it on two people since I started. But in both cases it was because they were kind of tipsy and got all blustery. In both cases, I used Kun Tao, and in both cases it was over in 2 moves.
If you only practice death strikes, how do you stop yourself from killing people in fights?
Hi again Chadderz, thats why I specified I used Kun Tao, not Penchak.
Kun Tao can be, um artful, I suppose, but its mostly a deflect and disarm thing.
In both of the cases I outlined, one was a simple incoming left hand deflect with a wrist push down. The other was a simple counter strike. In both cases, I didn't seriously injure the other person. And it was over after that.
Also for what its worth, the backward hand wrist strike that I did to the one guy (i was MUCH nicer than what i'm about to show you) was shown to me by my GM as an easy way to diffuse a situation.
This picture, is what I looked like after my first time learning the movement...
I'm going to edit this because I'm a bit of a nerd about it...
In Kun Tao that I do, its a lot of fluid motion, almost dance like. Its also the only Silat I do that has a Guru. Call it Kata, Forms, whatever, I don't do it with Betawi or Penchak. Betawi and Penchak are specifically move based and meant for integrating all systems you train, instantaneously, as muscle movement. I do Iron Palm as well (only for a few months) because it ties in very closely with Snakefist. I'm basically not allowed to use that at ALL unless its life or death. I'm not sure if you do Iron Palm or not, but this is what I looked like when I started. (I'm much better now )
9 types of MA???? Oefff I prefer to stick to just one. Good luck with that
remember: jack of all trades, master of none
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