Silat lineage

Discussion in 'Silat' started by Narrue, Mar 1, 2006.

  1. Steve Perry

    Steve Perry Valued Member


    Selamat, Narrue --

    I don't think anybody is arguing that we should abolish all traditions, nor that once you have an art that works, you don't work hard to keep it a living thing with a sense of its place in time and space.

    Why one studies an art varies. When I first walked into a training hall, I wanted to learn how to defend myself -- I wouldn't be surprised if that was the most common reason most people start training. Some arts are better than others when it comes to real fighting. Kyudo is beautiful, and I would guess that an expert could offer a better defense against a 12-gauge shotgun at fifty feet than kung-fu, karate, judo, or silat player using those art. But kyudo is not a hand-to-hand fighting system in the same way that the others are.

    In an art that is focused more on development of the practitioner as a person than as a fighter, then the costumes and traditions can take on a stronger importance.

    In an art where the goal is to walk away from a knife attack on the street, the history and clothing and traditions are less important.

    Many arts have, over the years, become very narrow and specialized. They focus on wrestling or boxing or use of a particular weapon -- a knife, stick, sword -- and while they can be made to serve in the process of self-defense, many of them are not primarly designed to do that.

    If you happen to have your shinai or a katana with you when a mugger comes at you, then kendo and iaido are excellent arts to know. If you are good enough to use your hands as you would a sword, it will help you even if you left the sword at home -- but it won't be as effective in doing that as other styles that start closer to the problem.

    Hitting somebody with your rolled-up certificate of rank in an art that is designed to develop your spirit more than your body is going to be less effective than hitting them with a stick you've trained for years to use.

    In our version of silat, we believe we have a large enough toolbox to deal with most of what we are likely to run into in the real world. Silat begins with the blade. Not to say that silat is a perfect art with an answer for everything -- that shotgun, for instance, or a master swordfighter with a live katana against bare hands, those are going to be problems, no question.

    In a silat style where the teaching focuses on how to tie your sarong, and the ability to recite your lineage back to the founder, or the cultivation of a feeling of brotherhood, you can learn much of interest, and it certainly has value, no disagreement. But that's not the route I'd want to have taken if Thug and Thuggier step out of a dark doorway with mayhem in their minds.

    Bobbe argues for efficacy above all. There is a place for that. Knowing about history and lineage and cultural traditions also has a place. For many of us, those come in a distant second to the ability to walk away from the fight with your teeth still in place and your body in one unbleeding piece.

     
  2. Bobster

    Bobster Valued Member

    This is true, but I believe that the instructor is where that "personality" radiates from more than the art. Remember, the art is intangible, so the physical representative you actually SEE is the instructor. How he presents himself & his style will go a long way in your perception of the art, even if you haven't actually trained it yet.

    Well, that's quite a leap. Remember, with dedication, constant effort and hard work ANYONE can achieve a level of success at ANYTHING they try. You are probably better at driving a car & negotiating traffic as a 35 year old then you were as a 19 year old. Lineage won't really help here as I have said before it stems from your own physical endeavors, not a wall chart of your martial arts genealogy. Unless you count that as one of the psychological motivators that you use to mentally stimulate you into constant effort, that's understandable.

    Tradition is fine, as long as it isn't dogma. Attaching tradition to martial arts is a risky thing, because stagnation is just as deteriorating to a system as having no traditions can be. Again, you use the term "turn/transform/transmute into something else" as if it is a thing to be avoided. This is a mistake, it can make you disdain anything that comes along which could enhance your art or your own personal abilities, simply because it isn't "Traditional". Common sense in combat is often neglected or simply overlooked because "We don't do that in OUR style". This is similar to water saying "In MY system of river rapids, we only flow around the LEFT side of the rocks". Water just hits it and goes, it isn't concerned with where the previous water went!! But then again, you have to decide what you are training for. Some people need to belong to something with a history behind it, like a society of some kind. Others are looking for exercise & don't really care who invented it.
     
  3. Kiai Carita

    Kiai Carita Banned Banned

    Lineage Oh Dear...

    Warm Salaams and hormat to all pendekars,

    I have to agree with the wise words of our silat elder Steve Perry.

    Traditionally in Indonesia and the country that occupied this archipelago before it, linage has never been an important factor in pencak, silat, maempo, or silek schools. In fact traditionally there were never any silat schools, the first school in the ‘modern’ sense of the word would be the Setia Hati original school in East Java: Surabaya, then Madiun. Before that, rather than in schools, people wishing to learn pencak silat would learn from a master and if they were talented often they would go on and learn with other masters, with their blessing. After the establishment of Islam in Jawa, many pencak silat styles were closely associated with the madrassah and were part of religious training, and the master would also be an ustadz: a teacher of Islamic knowledge.

    Maybe it can be said that there were two kinds of silat institutions, first, the aliran like Cimande, Cikalong, Cikaret, Bawean, Minang and so on. Aliran means a flow, a small river, and means more or less the same as the word ism as in expressionism, cubism and so on in painting. Sometimes these aliran recognize an ancient founder and all can claim to be his/her descendants, but always these claims are historically unsound. For instance, nowadays it is believed that Cimande is the oldest aliran in West Jawa, and writers have traced it to a certain Grandpa Khoir who might have lived in the 1700 or the 1800, but on the other hand, Babad Sunda, written a few centuries before the alleged lifetime of Grandpa Khoir, explicitly mentions the word penca as martial skills played by Pajajaran people in the tragic war with Majapahit, so how could Khoirs Cimande be the oldest? Most Sunda people claim through oral history that penca was around long before the war with Majapahit.

    Apart from these ‘ism’ styles there also emerged styles which were more or less created by masters at the time, like Kwitang, Serak, Madi, Kari and so on. It might be interesting to note that most of these styles emerged in Batavia. Some of these styles then developed into ‘aliran’ as well while some remained true and knowledgeable of their linage like Mustika Kwitang. As an international port and a melting pot of cultures, the old city Batavia (now Jakarta) has the most styles of silat per square kilometer in Indonesia. All the Batavia silat styles, like its music, dance, language and theatre, are influenced by the culture brought by the many immigrants from China. Serak is one of these styles, but unlike Mustika Kwitang who can definitely trace their linage back to Mr. Kwee Tang, over the years Serak has developed more into an ‘aliran’ rather than a ‘holder of linage school’.

    For this reason it is a waste of time for US pendekars to wrangle about the linage of Serak, and sad that someone has trademarked the name there. In Indonesia there is traditionally no sense of copyrights or intellectual property. If you invent a fighting method and your village follows you that is a reason to be proud, not to be upset. If some more skillful players then add on to what you found that is also seen as a blessing. The Islamic teaching that ilmu (knowledge) must be given back to Allah through amal (good deeds) means that traditionally silat teachers never sold their knowledge for pay, rather they would look after their students as parents. I have been lucky enough to be able to learn silat for more than free, when I visit my teacher I get free board and lodging as well.

    Particularly within the aliran of Serak, it appears that the US pendekars have contributed something very worthwhile to the body of knowledge which is Serak-ism: the explanation of the concepts of Base, Angle, and Leverage. These concepts and the explanation of them are unique and meaningful contributions from the US pendekars to the development of Serak, and can be brought back to Indonesia, even to help explain intellectually, other silat styles as well. Just like anyone can be an expressionist painter, anyone also can claim to be a Cimande or Serak player, as long as the Serak-ism or Cimande-ism in their movement and philosophy. As an Indonesian I really appreciate these contributions as they obviousely come from a clear mind and a loving heart, unlike some manipulative posturing coming from other US silat players who appear to use and abuse Indonesian culture and history for personal (material) gains.

    Warm salaams to all,

    Kiai Carita.
     
  4. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    My worthless opinon,
    In the western world, many people build their reputation on other people experiences or fames. Some students using their teacher's reputation to promote their own. The fact is this, regardless who you are studying from, regardless what silat system. It go back to your own responsibilty. If you are a good student, then it is your responsibility to have a good knowledg and understanding what your teacher taught you. Remember, a student is reflection of a teacher. Lineage is important if you want them to be important, its important to love your teacher, to highly respected your teacher's teacher as so on. But is not the prime indication or guarranty that you will better because of the linege of the system itself. It comes down to you. It is your responsibility to learn and it is your teacher responsibility to teach. If both of you doing what its suppose to be doing then to there is no doubt that you will in the right path.
    And I could be wrong too,
    Tristan O'Malley for today, can't wait for guiness ;)
     
  5. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    Any relation to Pat O'Malley :rolleyes:

    Slainte' as they say :)
     
  6. realitychecker

    realitychecker New Member

    snarf

    Going back to the idea of "Essence" over "Art".


    Projecting your 'soul' through "ART" is "Essence".

    Honoring a 'lineage' is giving respect to one/those who have 'shown you the way' to express your understanding of their curriculum.

    A writer would liken this to a bibleography, or citing the 'source'. Nothing more. 'Credit where credit is due'.

    Expressing one's self through combat=Martial Art.

    Bad Expression=Poor credit.

    One good understanding outweighs 99 lineage curriculum jurus as far as "teaching"{communicating one's understanding of a particular subject}

    Thank you, Bobbe and Steve!
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2006
  7. Bobster

    Bobster Valued Member

    First, the seeker must know himself....

    In an artistic, asthetic sense, perhaps. But what I meant by that was behind every ART is a point, or a message. Look at Wing Chun, as an example: There are forms, drills, a famous exercise called Chi Sao, stances and footwork. But almost every one of these elements points toward one thing: Close range combat, primarily with the upper body. The rest of it is simply style, icing for the cake. Jiu Jitsu is another easily identifiable example, as is Tae Kwon Do. you don't have to dig into the far reaches of the soul to see what they are about, it's blatant and in your face. This is what I meant by "Essence" over "Art". The "Essence" will be the idea the creator of the style had for combat, and what knowledge he was able to convey about it to others. The "Art" will be what his level of success or failure will be in transmitting the style through the forms and exercises he invents to convey the message.

    So, what is the MESSAGE that your art is trying to convey to you? I don't mean the spiritual realm either, there are enough people touting their opinions, as well as their version of God's opinion. No, what I am speaking of is the physical actions, when you take all the drills, stances, footwork, basics (especially basics!) of your art, what does it point to? What was the creator of it trying to convey, in his limited knowledge? THAT is ESSENCE. Every art has something like this, with the exception of perhaps a few that try to be "All-Inclusive". I personally don't think this is possible, but that's also my own worthless opinion.

    Behind every TECHNIQUE is a CONCEPT.

    This is where it starts, because NOBODY has a martial art plotted out from crime to cops right at the beginning. But they will have a couple or more techniques that they can execute with relative success time after time. They already have a fluid version of it in their heads, so at this point there's no need to create a standardized "Technique" to present. They will only do that if they try to teach the concept to others. So, to concept: What is the message that the individual techniques of your style are trying to convey? They will normally find a common ground between them to support the essence of the technique.

    Behind every FORM (Kata, Kuen, etc.) there is CONTENT.

    This is a very straightforward point, what is the form doing? Some relay multiple messages, others repeate the the same thing over and over to drive home a point. Don't get lost in the honorifics of the form, what it's name is, what it's lineage is (Some styles do this, why I have no idea), look for the purpose of the motion.

    The TECHNIQUE will support the FORM
    The FORM will support the ART
    The ART will reflect the ESSENCE

    This is the evolution of a system, or "Style". To bring lineage into it, while historically has some merit, does the third or so generation out no good at all, outside of a rhetorical exercise in "Who-What-Where". By all means, keep accurate records, develop a sense of pride in the knowledge that others went before you, and let it motivate you to continue when you feel like giving up. Yes, your instructors passed this information on to you, and yes, you should be grateful. But don't think your SOUL has anything to do with it, and don't think for a second that it's lineage that's going to save you when the weasels hit the rectum.

    It will be your own hard work, effort & time spent training.


    Fair enough, I'll go along with that.

    I don't quite get this one, are you saying that, if I have a bad expression of martial arts, I am a bad credit to my teacher? Or that I have a bad expression because I didn't give enough credit? Or something else entirely?


    Let me close this with a question: Did you go to high school? Did you're teachers there pass knowledge on to you? Has that knowledge more than once gotten you a job, let you read a label, understand what was being said to you?

    Do you still honor those teachers who taught you to read in the fourth grade? Their knowledge is no less important, and I'll bet my next paycheck you use it more than you use Martial Arts. Got any pictures of THEM on your wall? Do you keep a lineage chart of all your teachers from preschool throughout College?

    If you do, fine. BUT IF YOU DON'T: Wouldn't you say that remembering them in your thoughts and prayers (or not) hasn't really made one bit of difference in your execution of their gift of knowledge to you?

    Think about it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2006
  8. realitychecker

    realitychecker New Member

    Quote:
    Projecting your 'soul' through "ART" is "Essence"



    In an artistic, asthetic sense, perhaps. But what I meant by that was behind every ART is a point, or a message. Look at Wing Chun, as an example: There are forms, drills, a famous exercise called Chi Sao, stances and footwork. But almost every one of these elements points toward one thing: Close range combat, primarily with the upper body. The rest of it is simply style, icing for the cake. Jiu Jitsu is another easily identifiable example, as is Tae Kwon Do. you don't have to dig into the far reaches of the soul to see what they are about, it's blatant and in your face. This is what I meant by "Essence" over "Art". The "Essence" will be the idea the creator of the style had for combat, and what knowledge he was able to convey about it to others. The "Art" will be what his level of success or failure will be in transmitting the style through the forms and exercises he invents to convey the message.

    So, what is the MESSAGE that your art is trying to convey to you? I don't mean the spiritual realm either, there are enough people touting their opinions, as well as their version of God's opinion. No, what I am speaking of is the physical actions, when you take all the drills, stances, footwork, basics (especially basics!) of your art, what does it point to? What was the creator of it trying to convey, in his limited knowledge? THAT is ESSENCE. Every art has something like this, with the exception of perhaps a few that try to be "All-Inclusive". I personally don't think this is possible, but that's also my own worthless opinion.


    Bobbe,

    Sorry that I was a bit vague. I promise that I wasn't just typing nonsense, there is a good point behind my post. I really didn't mean anything "astheticly" as you wrote. I DO promise to reply to your reply to what I posted to show there IS logic behind it. I have to get to work now though....
     
  9. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    I don’t think linage has anything to do with the paper on your wall as such things can be and are faked. Linage in my opinion is the art in its completeness being passed on. It does not just apply to silat or even martial arts, there are many lineages of various types and levels of importance.

    If you take ingredients away from a cake recipe you would not expect it to retain the same flavour, would you?
    Yes it is possible to improve on a recipe by slightly altering the ingredients but if this is done excessively by adding and taking away you will soon end up with a completely different product.
    I would say that linage is a weight supported by 3 legs, tradition, history & culture. Take any of those legs out from under the weight and it will soon topple to the ground.
     
  10. Bobster

    Bobster Valued Member

    True, but don't view this as BAD, it's not. Better cakes were made because somebody liked lemon flavoring better than vanilla. The same can be said of martial arts.

    And, as long as what you end up with is effective, makes sense, and can be duplicated under combat environments, I would say that the completely different product is a GOOD RESULT, not a negative one. Also, go back to what I said about arts being created by humans. Teh guy who thought up whatever art you're studying may have been physically different than you, with varying differences in skill and abilities. What you take from his art & alter to fit yourself isn't discrediting HIM, it's enhancing YOU.

    I have to disagree here. I train Pencak Silat, but I was raised in South Carolina, USA. I now live in Seattle, Washington. Although I appreciate Indonesian culture (GOD IN HEAVEN, DO I LOVE THEIR COFFEE AND CURRY!!) it's not necissary for me to train Silat. Umm..Let me say that, while not necissary, I have to contend that it's certianly more helpful if you DO study the culture. Kembangan alone is difficult to explain how to do unless I tell you why THEY did it!

    Tradition & History, definately not. I have said it before & I'll say it again, habit and tradition should NOT be above critisicm, nor should the dead rule the living. I will not avoid or ignore an innovation to my art just because master Kwan didn't do it. One of my students said it best, as we were having this discussion a year ago: "All anyone has to say is that "Pendekar said it was true" and it's F**K common sense!!"

    Back to my point, "Tradition' can be just as much a hinderance as any advantage you gain from it. It can blind you to the obvious truth that is right in front of your face, because tradition always must have an answer for everything. If such doesn't exist in your tradition, then it simply "doesn't exist". I have seen this kind of thing before.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2006
  11. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    I'm erring on the Bobster side of things here.

    To throw a different perspective into the fray, tradition and culture are not a static 'thing' anyway. It cannot stand still: 'culture' in itself is fluid and adaptive.

    One of the reasons Silat is such a good MA is because of this.

    Indonesian culture is very diverse and syncretic. With regard to Silat, it has absorbed the best from many other cultures and rejected the garbage!

    That is culture, always moving. Taking what is advantageous and rejecting what is not.

    You cannot say X culture is this or that because it does not stand still.

    A friend of ours who is Canadian by birth but has lived in Indonesia for 26 years, makes some very bizzare, but nonetheless interesting comparisons between the British and the Indonesians in one of his books. And he does indeed have some points.

    After all we are both islanders and great seafarers. We are both '*******' nations that resulted from continous invasion and colonisation and rejection. We both have an obsession with good manners.

    Anyway, my wife is Indonesian but my mother-in-law prefers my beef rendang :D

    And pak Bobster, you are so right about the coffee :D
     
  12. Bobster

    Bobster Valued Member

    Oooohh, that's a good one! Gotta write that down myself...!

    Gajah, thank you for your kind words. May I humbly ask two favors from you, knowing I am a stranger?

    1: What is the name and author of the book you mentioned? I would like to read it.

    2: Do you think it would be possible for me to get your beef rendang recipe from you? :eek:

    You can PM or email me if you like. I understand if you would rather not. Thanks!
     
  13. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    I tend to view culture as a dynamic process...I suppose.

    Anyway no problem.

    I suppose a bit of free publicity for Jeremy wouldn't do any harm.

    http://jeremyallan.com/index.html

    Another good book is 'Not a Hazardous Sport" by Nigel Barley. A very heartfelt and sometimes hilarious book about a Torajan rice barn :confused: I kid you not :)

    As for the rendang I'll PM a recipe to you. Believe me, my in laws were in hysterics when I offered to cook beef rendang for them. Who ever heard anything as stupid as an Englishman cooking beef rendang :D

    PS. Sorry Sarge, a bit of an off topic tangent here, but at least we're not falling out ;)
     
  14. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    The best book I've ever read about the history of Silat was...gee i forgot the name of the book and the Author is Ian Wilson, an Englishman. This book is his PhD project. Stevan Plinck send this text book to me. Darn can't remember the name. Steve or Todd, you may remember the name? I can assure you it was the very best silat book I have ever read, no hold bare.

    As far as coffee, nothing can beat coffee from Sumatra...:)

    >Back to my point, "Tradition' can be just as much a hinderance as any advantage you gain from it. It can blind you to the obvious truth that is right in front of your face, because tradition always must have an answer for everything. If such doesn't exist in your tradition, then it simply "doesn't exist". I have seen this kind of thing before.
    **************
    I respectfully disagree with Bobee :)
    Tradition is a base, tradition is not the answer to anything but at the same time is not hiderance to you. We can grow, add, improvise thing but the objectives are still the same. I have a deep discusssion with my Uncle about some movements in silat that it seemed very strange in modren times. His answer is, time changes, how people walk, talk, and fights are diffrent. But yet the essences of silat, the foundation are still the same, we have to adapt the situation. Your job is to protect your body by using your hands and legs. Any movements that requires your hand farther than necessary is no longer viable. Any langkahs or stances that make you feel imobilized are no longer used as a base rather as transition. Any movements that will result in having a surgery in your knees are NOT requires. :) Silat is always been practiced in an ideal situation, large room to manuvers, open space and friendly atsmosphere. This is the place to learn, however, in NOT ideal situations, you CAN NOT assumed that all you have been practice will work to your advantage, you have to adapt, improvise, and overcome.
    You can't not doing low kuda-kuda in crowded nightclub, rolling around can be hazardous to your health. ;) In early 70's I was a bouncer in bikers night club. I have seen many people proclaimed that hey knew karate got knock out before they can say: Mommy!"
    So going back to tradition, you have to learn to adapt, improvise and overcome. Not necessarily hinderance.
    And I could be wrong too....darn I still can't remember the name of the text book...is in my tounge but can't say it...and this is my fourth cup of Sumatra coffee :)
    Yeah, got to go...you know where :)
    Tristan
     
  15. Bobster

    Bobster Valued Member

    Well, I don’t want to sound too much like IBA here, but what do you mean by “tradition” and how is it being a base? What is “Base” to you? To me, in the physical sense, I think of “base” as the foundation upon which I build my style of movement (Silat, Kali, What have you). “Tradition” to me means the repetition of motion, the adherence to a set of values, or the remembrance of a chain of archaic events. I don’t think that would be a very stable “base” in the face of modern innovation and improvements in martial arts. I know what hard work is, that’s part of my base. I know what effort is, that’s how I achieve my base. But “tradition” to me means clinging to something for no other reason than “that’s how we’ve always done it”. And for me, that simply isn’t even near enough.

    I am not at all arguing that all tradition is bad. I have a tradition of bathing every night. Because of this, I tend to smell better than people who do otherwise. But tradition without justification is nothing more than parroting the ideals of someone else, usually a person you have never met. Many martial arts, MANY martial arts hold to traditions that are not only detrimental to a student’s growth and self-development, they fool any real knowledge from coming to fruition in the student’s training, as well as encourage the instructor to succumb to the “call me God” syndrome. Pak Tristan, I understand you are a man of Karate as well as Silat, correct? Have you never walked into a Dojo & been subjected & expected to all manner of groveling to the supposed “MASTER” simply because “tradition” demanded it? Have you never seen a place where a training method was clearly in the dark ages, yet “tradition” halted anyone from saying so? I have. I have witnessed people humiliated into submission or leaving the school in disgrace because they had broken a tradition. I have seen human beings transformed into mindless zombies echoing their instructor at every chance, because they were part of a tradition.

    Oh, I absolutely agree with you, but tradition doesn’t. Tradition demands that you hold to the old ways, and disregard anything foreign to the club. Tradition expects loyalty from you, unwavering, and prompts denial in the face of truth. You can certainly “grow” in a tradition, but you cannot “add” or “Improvise” a thing, because that would be BREAKING with tradition. ‘Ya know what we call people like that? Radicals.

    …Or heretics. Often the same thing.

    Allow me to quote here from Oscar Ratti & Adele Westbrook’s excellent “Secrets of the Samurai”:

    -Secrets of the samurai, pg. 176

    Or how about almost ANY page from the Budoshoshinshu? There is much good wisdom in this particular book, and much foolishness as well. But it all pertains to martial TRADITION. And there are hundreds of martial arts books & papers I could quote with the same restrictive, narrow tunnel-vision approach that cuts off the true flow of knowledge to an ebb, and then a trickle, until the pupil could just as easily learn from a book for all the help he’s getting at the dojo. This style of “tradition” is cancerous in the martial arts world, and spreads as easily as a common cold.

    I said earlier that not all traditions are bad. There are things that are important not to lose sight of, and there are some habits that are only destructive in the advanced stages of training. There are a lot of drills & techniques my beginner students do that I will work out of them by the time they reach advanced. Just this morning my class did a punching drill that I myself hadn’t done in DECADES. I had to dredge it up because they weren’t understanding the method of stepping & punching I was teaching them, and I had to fall back on the traditional methods. But where I take exception to the rule is using tradition as the FIRST line of reasoning, as opposed to common sense & logical examination. And, just so we are all on the same sheet of music, I too was a staunch traditionalist once. I believed body mind and soul in the path of the warrior, and to be honest, I didn’t have a single instance that drove me into this non-conformist skin that I live in. It was over a period of time that I began to question the validity of certain techniques, and the teaching methods of certain instructors that that first led me to see the stark reality of blindly following tradition.

    My point all along! The dynamic principle is change, we are LIVING CREATURES, not dead things. We have a capacity for evolution and improvement, although we seldom exercise it. Perhaps what you are thinking of as “tradition” is something vastly different than what I am thinking of, because I have never heard of someone using it in your context.
    I think I agree with you here, but I am having difficulty understanding exactly what you mean.


    Okay, I got that! It’s clear!!
    This sentence conflicts, at least to me. The hindrance comes from allowing your tradition to fool your growth. Tradition usually is the forerunner of this malady, although ego can cause it as well. The ability to maintain the negotiation of fluidity (improvisation, adaptation) comes from the ability to step outside of tradition, pierce the veil & achieve the truth. Tradition should be just one ingredient, it should never be the whole pie. If someone who died 300 years ago is dictating what you do today, YOUR MIND IS NOT YOUR OWN. You must be able to recognize between true value & true worthlessness, between true loss & true gain in your training. Tradition whispers in your ear when you try to do this, it tells you that you are part of a long line of warriors dating back to the feudal period of Japan. You should be proud of that. To step away from it is to denigrate all that those have gone before you have done.

    This is how the wool is pulled over so many people’s eyes. It is astonishing to me what an otherwise rational human being will accept as truth in a martial arts school, something he would have scoffed at had it come from any other source other than the one with “tradition” written on it.

    This kind of information is going to be over many of the reader’s heads, I know that. It takes a lot of growth in your training to arrive here, and not many people even get on the train, or by the time they do it’s far too late to change their minds, even if they see the truth of it a mile away. I have been witness to this as well. But I do hope that something I wrote here STICKS. I hope somebody reading this will keep the seed of these words in the back of your head, and that it encourages you to look deeper into what you are accepting as “truth” on nothing more than faith and the words of tradition.
     
  16. Steve Perry

    Steve Perry Valued Member

    Book Title

    Brother Tristan -- Wilson's doctoral thesis is entitled "The Politics of Inner Power: The Practice of Pencak Silat in West Java."

    It's mostly about Tjimande (Cimande), but Wilson, an Australian, speaks the language in Jawa, and lived in the villages while doing the research for his degree.
     
  17. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    Thank you brother Steve,

    To Narrue: Thank you for sharing...:)
    In my fifty years of training silat, I have tried to faithfully preserve the essence of what I learned from my teacher. Yet the way I express that essence in my techniques has changed as my understanding of Pak Lek message has deepened.
    With that, I'm agree to disagree with you and lets move on? :)
    Tristan
     
  18. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    OPPS! I meant to Mr. Edmonds...:)
     
  19. RAMANA1

    RAMANA1 New Member

    bobbe-great post on lineage,very insightful.
     
  20. Bobster

    Bobster Valued Member

    Thanks! :D
     

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