Silat is it effective?

Discussion in 'Silat' started by MartialKid, Oct 18, 2008.

  1. kilat02

    kilat02 Valued Member

    agreed never go into a fight with the illusion of not getting hit. it will hurt much more If you do:). also the fact that you probaly (though not so hard) get hit quiker in, let's say sparring with a rookie is that thier moves are unintentionally unexpected and akward, in where you have no good respons to. a JKD guy would say "broken rythem".
  2. Toy Weapon

    Toy Weapon New Member

    In the post when I invited a sensei or guru to come and play Silat with my coach, it is because I am just as interested in seeing if there is anyone who can fill the challenge as I am in showing off our form. If I were in a position to place a cash bet in the manner that the Gracie brothers did to promote their style which prior to starting the Ultimate Fighting circuit reached $100k, I would.

    As long as he is as I good as I think, he is perhaps a perfect 'David vs. Goliath' demonstrator as well. When you can evade some of the quickest movers while maintaining 'correct technique' which enables smooth follow on, the power that Lorry (under 80kg/175lb) can generate with a roundhouse for example, with one or 1-2 combo behind the knees (for example) should be more than enough to bring down even the largest of men.

    Of course he is very modest and would strongly disapprove of such claims but if someone genuinely wants to 'play Silat' with him, I am sure that he would graciously accept an invitation. He is in his mid forties now and perhaps isn't quite as nimble as he once was but even on the elite world wide scale, I expect he still classifies as very good, and you will be hard pressed finding anyone who can match him.

    To edit my earlier statement of "Secondly, if someone tries to kick you in the nuts, can you effectively evade it? Well, I can.", I personally have not trained/maintained my reflex for about four years so at the moment those are very brave words. It is however a fundemental skill that we train right from the beginning and I am naturally very quick so when I'm in training, my nuts are generally pretty safe. :)
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2010
  3. pakarilusi

    pakarilusi Valued Member

    As effective as you are. Like any other MA really.

    I've done 3 different styles of Silat for some length of time, the techniques are very different and the training "culture" even more different from one to the other.

    It can get very traditional at times... But hey, that is its strength really.
  4. Shihabudeen

    Shihabudeen Valued Member

    Peace be upon you all, my Silat teacher did not teach women and children... of the twenty or so students he taught over twenty years... only 6 of us teach and I believe I'm the first and perhaps only one who will teach women and children... as I will teach whomever God Most Gracious wants me to... also there is no basic in true silat... as its about an unarmed person taking on and in a very devastating lethal manner multiple assailants who are armed.... there is no silat without the blade... although with our teacher we were not allowed to touch even a wooden blade until 7 years into it... and then a live blade was still out of reach of a few for another 7 or so...but all teachers in our circle dance forever with live blades... as for effectiveness silat, like other lethal arts... is only as effective as the practitioner... although someone with authentic silat ability is not in danger where others will be...of them their source of power says,Bismillah "They shall not grieve when others grieve, niether shall they fear when others fear."
    Last edited: May 4, 2011
  5. jpgayong

    jpgayong New Member


    Why didn't your Cikgu teach women? Just curious!

  6. Toki_Nakayama

    Toki_Nakayama Valued Member

  7. Toy Weapon

    Toy Weapon New Member

    Well said Sir. That basically covers everything.

    Explain though, if you don't mine, the context of 'silat' where you say "there is now silat without the blade". I have not trained for umpteen years where our coach introduces any form of blade, which he only does for his students who first reach a level of proficiency with blunt weapons.

    My purpose and interest in learning any form of self defence arose from no desire at all when a brother of mine was mugged by a number of attackers who continued to beat him even after taking his wallet. It alerted me to the simple fact that if you do find yourself in such a situation, the attackers are likely to be armed or in numbers. In a country where it is illegal to carry weapons on the street without a valid reason (eg. work knife), I see no reason to learn armed combat at all. I prefer to hone and increase my skills to an advantage of empty handed (unweighted) agility, so that I may be ready to defend myself effectively anywhere, any time, against perhaps even several armed attackers. Such purpose in training can make a formidable artist, as my own hook punch is programmed in angle and impact zone with a pure purpose to shatter and destroy my attackers jaw, to ensure an instant knock out, so that a second move in my combo only exists if there is a second attacker, the third move for the third attacker, etc.

    You say that there is no 'silat' without a blade. My coach tells me that 'Silat Bela Diri' translates to 'Martial Arts Self Defence'. What is the relevance of a blade to Silat?
  8. Toy Weapon

    Toy Weapon New Member

    My brothers belongings were returned to him by the police, who rescued the attackers from an angry brother with a baseball bat.
  9. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned


    Good luck with that mate :rolleyes:

    compare the above quotes to the heap of crap video in this post...

  10. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Silat has some very effective stuff BUT a lot of people get carried away with some really Kool-aid type stuff, belief in supernatural abilities, and LARP fantasies about tearing people's testicles off. At the end of the day, if you're training realistically (ie, actually hitting each other), it's going to be effective, whereas if you're doing long, complicated flow chains where you simulate eye gouges and finish with a neck break everytime (my favourite Silat cliche) then it probably won't be.
    I've seen some very good stuff from the Inosanto academy guys.
  11. nasigoreng

    nasigoreng Valued Member

    Silat and Filipino Martial arts come from cultures where, traditionally, people in villages would walk around with some kind of blade (knife or machete) in order to carry out their daily work. You can still see this in many parts of Indonesia: farmers walk around with sharp sickle knives to harvest rice. So, silat and FMA evolved in a part of the world where combat involving weapons was more likely. It makes since because criminals would not risk attacking someone unless they had the advantage of a weapon. These principles for self-defense against weapons also work for empty-hand.

    Because silat is a form of self-defense, an art/dance form, and (to some people) an internal art, it's important to find a good instructor who can give you the combative skills you want and not waste your time with other stuff. The Inosanto Academy's silat, in my opinion, is solid. You might look for a Jeet Kun Do instructor in your area who has a strong background in silat.
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2011
  12. Shihabudeen

    Shihabudeen Valued Member

    Peace and blessings be with you all, Instructors anywhere with a solid background in silat will not be found crosstraining. The internal reality of authentic silat takes a lifetime to produce a focus which, distracted by other paths with their own knowledge, will undermine the process of change needed to exemplify the fruits of the spirit expressed in a physical expression of martial ardor... silat is about manifesting the internal virtues of a warrior, who is not warlike... but dressed in the highest ethics and moral development provided through engagement in heart purification.. since there is no defense in silat without a direct connection to our higher power the path is unique and the communion required for such superhuman performance requires progress. The teacher with no inward progress will teach tainted by his ego toxic approach, the enlightened authentic teacher will teach by the example of his living a virtuous life personifying the virtues he is seeking to impart.... if your teacher does not manifest progress on an inward as well as outwardly balanced path his credentials as a silat teacher are suspect.... at best. Pure Authentic Silat is not known in the USA... Kembangan is its mark of recognition, the improvisational expression of divine inspired movement. The pure wisdom of combat response calibrated to percussive dance is the movement of silat, it is the war dance of thunder and lightning... its not the dance of someone lost in improvisation but rather a vanishing of the persilat and manifestation in his silat of superhuman speed wisdom and lethal combat appropriate response... the sourcing is environmentally seeded in the heart not the mind... in combat there is no time to think, the response must be one complete step ahead of the enemy in time... and so pours forth from the heart of inspired devotion.... perfectly... with effortless effort

    That's why an authentic silat teacher will move unlike any other you have seen, and his silat dance (kembangan) will speak for itself... The reality of war is one with the instruction of defense against and masterful use of bladed concepts... any authentic silat must be musical and tied to bladed wisdom for true silat wisdom descended under the shadows of swords.... knives and sticks are based on the same combat principles... with slight modifications... the same applies to all emptyhanded silat... take away a persilats weopon and he becomes the blade...

  13. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    The reality is that silat is a morass of cross training from for ever! Why? Because Nusantara has had so many cultural influences over a millennia.
    Silat has mixed bits of this and bits of that and fused many different ideas and fitted it into local cultural containers and contexts. I don't see that it's much different from any martial art from anywhere.

    Ignorance says that all silat has kembangan. It doesn't.
    Ignorance says that all silat is a bladed weapons art. It isn't, betako is an anagram for empty hands & benjangan has no bladed concepts.
    Ignorance says that there is a Pure and Authentic Silat ... only Pure Authentic Ignorance would proclaim that!
    Ignorance says "The teacher with no inward progress will teach tainted by his ego toxic approach" ... but fails to notice his own ego toxic approach!
    Ignorance loves the sound of their own voice ... e.g. "and so pours forth from the heart of inspired devotion.... perfectly... with effortless effort" ... what does that even mean!?

    Seriously, you drivel.
  14. Shihabudeen

    Shihabudeen Valued Member

    ignorance defined

    Peace and blessings to you all,
    So the voice defining ignorance has spoken, a word of advice,
    keep your words sweet for someday you might have to eat them...
    True Silat is not a mix of any other cultural martial arts offering... its distinctly Indonesian, it has no resemblance to kung fu, karate, any of the do's... etc... anyone who sees true silat will recognize the dance within it... and furthermore, at its core it is Sumatran... and is imbued with grace and uniqueness...
    We are all free to disagree...

    perhaps someday you will encounter a true and pure pusakah... a rare thing truly, then you will witness something no patchwork blend... can ever express... a mother art in its ancient and pure form...preserved and untainted by contemporary influence.
  15. nasigoreng

    nasigoreng Valued Member

    it's true that there are bas relief on the temples of Borobudur (built about 700 A.D.) that show metal instruments like gamelan and dancers performing what looks like kembangan. but the Borobudur temple was a Buddhist monument, not Islamic. Therefore, I suspect this kind of martial art was being practiced well before Malay people ever even heard of the prophet Muhammad, the angel Gabriel, and Abraham.

    Islam did not become the predominant religion of the region until the emergence of Malay-Muslim kingdoms like Melaka, Demak, and Pasai in the 13th-15th centuries. This conversion occurred quickly by converting the local ruler, then all of the ruler's subjects would automatically become Muslims. This did not change their Hindu-Buddhist-Animist traditions overnight.

    Therefore, if there is a pure form of silat, then it would not have anything to do with Islam.
  16. nasigoreng

    nasigoreng Valued Member

    furthermore, the fact that silat has incorporated elements of Middle Eastern warrior culture (mujahadin, ilmu batin, and sufism) shows that silat is indeed not as culturally pure as he would like to think. How would he respond to other Indonesians (Sundanese, Bugis, and Madurese) claiming that THEIR silat is the most genuine and purest? stop wasting our time with this: best we spend our time training in what we can reasonably believe will be effective self defense; it doesn't matter where it comes from.
  17. Toy Weapon

    Toy Weapon New Member

    I'm the best street fighter in the world.

    When the Japanese train with a katana they do not 'hit' each other. Are you saying that their training is ineffective?
    None contact training in many ways is more effective and helps to create a higher level of control. ie: With my jab I aim for the teeth. With none-contact training I can practise landing my knuckles snugly onto my opponents lips with enough room for a perfect four inch follow through, so that I can program my subconscious reflex to always land perfectly on target. Same goes with landing my shin onto my opponents floating rib (the follow through distances vary of course), my hook punch onto the back end of my opponents jaw, kicks to break knees and of course, every single move that we train. We train to execute our moves with pinpoint accuracy, perfect range and angle and because we develop our self control to successfully pull our punches at the last moment in the event of a training partner not managing to block effectively, we can safely train to effectively block without injuring each other, however many times it takes. 'Complicated flow chains' can be extremely effective when trained with with a genuine attitude of intent with attacking, which is something that very few people emulate. Sarungan Talikan (the spelling surly differs) is the component of training where the same principal of 'touch tag' is taken to a freestyle level, where the training partners take turns role playing as the attacker and defender. Starting with one move at a time and progressively increasing to a succession of full speed freestyle combinations, practitioners are able to effectively train all attacking and defending moves, including 'eye gouges and neck breaks'.


    Dude, they're only kids and they are competing with padding and within a set of rules. A front kick using your heel to burst someone's bladder isn't possible in those circumstances and my guess is that none of those guys have ever been trained at an advanced level, like where to place the attacks, anyway.

    I've got a good instructor. Thanks for the tip though. :)


    Dude, first of all, Silat is originally developed from Kung Fu styles and has developed into its own umbrella of distinct styles.
    Secondly, according to the television series "Human Weapon" which researches many styles to a reasonable depth, 'Silat' is "The most complete style in the world.". One reason for this is surly because it brings components from other styles and incorporates them into its own teachings. Some of the countless styles included under the umbrella of the very broad term 'Silat' are actually completely contradictory in principal.
    Finally, are you on drugs or something? Have you forgotten that Silat is a martial art developed for combat and war, fighting and killing people? It does sometimes incorporate spiritual and religious teachings which can sometimes enhance its teachings but spirituality is ultimately secondary to its specific purpose, which is martial arts and self defence.

    Silat Bela Diri is the style that my coach developed mostly on his own merits, which involves extensive training with traditional Silat styles as well as cross training with a plethora of other non Silat styles. My style is a 'pure' form in its own right has been developed and will continue to be (the highest training levels are still a work in progress) developed according to a set of agendas including practical and effective self defence in modern society, balanced and healthy physique development, influence toward peaceful intentions physically and socially, as well as all the typical martial arts stuff: confidence, flexibility, increased longevity etc.

    Blah blah blah and stuff.

    Martial Kid simply asks for a general overview of the style and how it has helped in a real life situation. He doesn't ask for spiritual tutorial of the religious influences or the history of how it was developed.

    Basically Martial Kid, it generally teaches you how to outmanoeuvre an armed or unarmed attacker which is a very effective form of defence. It also enables you to position yourself advantageously into attacking positions, and teaches you how to smash their faces in... In laymen's terms.

    In real life it has enabled me to defend myself effectively a few times and importantly, it allows me to stand confidently in situations when people have tried to stand over me, many times.

    My coach is very good, which is an enormous benefit.

    Last edited: Jul 6, 2011
  18. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    A front kick to burst the bladder.....riiiiiggghhhttttt....:rolleyes:
  19. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Which school of Silat? There are so many it is not something you can say "that's it" to - it's like saying all kung fu is the same

    Why is it every time there is a Silat thread you pop up and post unmitigated tripe? Seriously irritating, especially as nearly everything you type is wrong anyway
  20. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Fundamentally yes, iif you're training katana without ever hitting each other with Shinai then you will not be able to function effectively in a swordfight.
    I train my students safely to effectivley block without injury. They put pads on and try to hit each other in live drills. They develop blocking skills very quickly. I very much doubt you can punch with that kind of accurracy under pressure as you never train under pressure. TBH if you require that kind of accurracy anyway, your punching technique is fundamentally flawed. If I punch I expect to do damage, wherever it hits. Why would you want to punch someone in the teeth anyway? It's a particularly poor target and carries massive risk of hand injury, often with the complication of osteomyleitis.

    "We train to execute our moves with pinpoint accuracy, perfect range and angle and because we develop our self control to successfully pull our punches at the last moment in the event of a training partner not managing to block effectively" Trust me, if you're training with no pressure then you will not be able to perform accurate techniques under pressure. Indeed, even with pressure training it is hard to utilise fine motor skills under pressure.
    Practice makes habit, and if you're training to pull your punches, guess what'll happen for real?
    The reality is that non contact training makes you feel strong, quick, skilled and powerful, but actually makes you none of those things.

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