Silat is it effective?

Discussion in 'Silat' started by MartialKid, Oct 18, 2008.

  1. taoizt

    taoizt Valued Member

    If you are looking for effective silat for in the cage, you will find watered down silat combined with some solid muay thai and bjj training. Silat is simply not suitable for the format in the ring, no matter if it's freefight or k1-rules.

    I'm an fanatic silat (or in fact pukulan) student, but don't believe that strapping on freefighting gloves and using it in a ring context would do the silat any good, there are better arts for that.

    As they say in silat...each style finds it's own students.. You don't choose silat, silat chooses you!
  2. Lord Bathmat

    Lord Bathmat Valued Member


    <<Silat is simply not suitable for the format in the ring, no matter if it's freefight or k1-rules.>>

    I've heard this before about other so called martial arts and I'm sorry it doesn't wash with me. As I said before there are probably some very good silat practitioners but for the average man i don't believe it will be that effective.

  3. Pekir

    Pekir Valued Member

    The 'generalization' of low stances in regard to silat is for a great part a misinterpretation. Sure there are styles, quite a few, that train extensively low stances but this doesn't mean you need to fight this way. For a part it is the strengthening of the legs, for some part it is a specific application and for some part it can be functional in actual fighting situations.

    The reason why most people won't 'survive' a ring fight is that they simply don't train for that specific function. Most of them probably wouldn't even survive any average streetfight. The same goes for a lot of people that train MMA or whatever ringsport simple because the train to a large extend recreational (not wrong with this)

    In the end every art is as good as it's practitioner. A very effective art with one can be lousy with an other person. It has always been that way and it will always be. On top of that it is way to simple to compare competition sports with so-called full fledged martial arts since they are a world apart. The first has rules the other in it's purest form hasn't. Doesn't make a difference if it's western or eastern martial art! Just the fact that one isn't allowed to attack the groin, throat of knees are obvious examples that would completely change tactics upside down (literally)

    It also is a comparison that one can't really make since there is almost no one person on these forums who have actually seen 'true' masters of any martial art fight worthy opponents in real life battle, let alone against MMA, K1 or UFC specialized fighters. As far as I'm concerned just discussing this phenomena is for the greater part theoretical.

    So the question: is silat effective? This can only be answered if you give it a serious try yourself. No one else can answer this question for another person nor can it be answered by joining a school for a few weeks or months. This is a simple fact for all martial arts and not just silat. Just having doubts is a good reason not to consider any of the martial arts in the first place... It's simply the wrong motivation to begin with.

    I do feel shame though for people who advertise their silat with claims like: "the deadliest martial art from the jungles of Indonesia". It is an art to be proud of but this nonsense is wrong in respect to any martial art and does severe damage to the general perception of silat.

    @ Lord Bathmat: "IMHO the effectiveness of silat will depend on where you are fighting. If you are fighting in the jungle or in boggy soil then i believe it is effective but if you are fighting in towns and cities where the ground is concrete etc then i don't think it is an effective fighting style. This because the style is was developed to be used in the jungle and in boggy soil."

    I really wonder were people have this general sense that silat was developed in the "jungle and in boggy soil" In the first place there is not one style but numerous and surely not all of them were developed in rural enviroments (probably more dessa than jungle) The Betawi/Jakarta arts were e.g. predominantly used in city like areas and there are more arts some of the largest styles today that were developed and optimized for city like enviroments. It is one of the specifics of the Malaysian rooted martial arts that they developed their arts in conjunction with their environment and these are very diverse.
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2009
  4. taoizt

    taoizt Valued Member

    I agree with Pekir. It has to do with intensity of training. And sadly the majority of people training in Silat do not want to put the same amount of effort, pain, sweat and blood into their training as the people who go for the MMA or ThaiBoxing format.

    I think that perhaps you have to train even more in Silat then in other ring-based styles to get to the higher levels. There is simply so much more depth in Silat as a MA then in the sports variations. More depth means more to train.
    A lot of people skip the part of training with the same intensity to go straight on to the more esoteric stuff. There are for instance sooo much silat practitioners (or other styles for that matter) who can't punch properly, and with that I mean that they don't train knockout power like for instance boxers train all the time. If you skip the basics then a style is almost useless. This goes for MMA, but certainly also for the traditional MA.

    Sometimes I hear people who train 3 months a certain style and they say they know how to punch properly.......hmmm i sense a big gap between knowledge and skill....
  5. Lord Bathmat

    Lord Bathmat Valued Member


    <<And sadly the majority of people training in Silat do not want to put the same amount of effort, pain, sweat and blood into their training as the people who go for the MMA or ThaiBoxing format>> That's why I don't believe Silat will be effective in a street situation for the average person.
  6. taoizt

    taoizt Valued Member

    Ok question regarding an average person:

    - do you need very good conditioning on the street?
    - do you need stamina to last more than 10 minutes on the street?
    - do you need to be able to fight against a well trained opponent?
    - do you need to be able to take multiple blows to your face ?

    For me none of the above questions are answered with yes.
    Question number 4 would indeed be very handy, but sadly NOONE can recieve multiple direct hits with bare fists on the face, except for some nutcases in russian or brazilian underground cage fights (who are often not drug-free). Fighting barefist is so much different from fighting with gloves, even the MMA-type.

    Then again:

    - do you need to be able to handle the stress in a street encounter?
    - do you need to know how to handle a knife attack on the street?
    - do you need to know how to handle a person who has been on drugs.
    - do you need to know what to do when your attacker brings his friends who also want to hit you with all they got.
    - do you need to know how you can use your environment to your advantage when **** hits the fan?

    I would say yes to all of those. The first question also goes for the MMA-format although ring-stress is not exactly the same as stress on the street.
    The sad truth is that most of this second list of questions is not easily trained for the average person (krav maga tries to). At least some silat styles try to address these points , if you succeed in becoming effective with it has more to do with training effort.

    I guess for the average person it is important to know to give a proper hit and what not to do in a situation where weapons and multiple opponents are present. That's mostly it. you can train your punch with silat, mma or any other style. Choose a proper style and train the basics seriously.

    If you want to train the whole Martial Art of Silat, there is a whole lot more to it. And if you want to be proficient in ring-fighting, choose MMA or Thaiboxing.
  7. Lord Bathmat

    Lord Bathmat Valued Member


    i agree with your last post.

  8. Pekir

    Pekir Valued Member

    No martial art will be effective in a street situation for the average person

    respectfully Pekir
  9. pmosiun

    pmosiun Valued Member

    I wanted to join silat after watching human weapon but was rejected because i am not a muslim so i don't really know how effective it is. Do you guys have any "accurate" videos showing how they actually look like in a fight or at least in sparring?
  10. Pekir

    Pekir Valued Member

    That is almost extraordinary to find a school that doesn't accept non-muslim students. There are some but the majority don't discriminate on religion as far as I know especially in the western part of the world.

    A video won't tell you anything about the effectiveness of any martial art. It is like advertising, it over-promises most of the time and gives the feeling of comfort when buying, nothing more nothing less. How do you want to judge the effectiveness of an art anyways if you have no real comprehension of that specific art. Most of the times it are the little things that can make a difference, the things 'outsiders' most probably won't know about. But on the other hand this is a reaction from a person that is not a huge fan of video teachings so my opinion is probably not the most sound for you taste ;-)
  11. kuntaoer

    kuntaoer Valued Member

    Is silat effective in the street? In a single word, YES. It has been proven by students all over the world who practice their art of silat by being pressure tested There are people in the different silat systems that use their training in silat for personal protection almost on a daily basis.. They walk in the fields of employment within the law enforcement (myself included) military use, and different aspects of the security field who have trained in this grouping of combatives in defense of themselves.. I know of at least 3 individuals (outside of myself) who have walked away from situations where they were in danger in the street or combat environment while using their art..

    Not all combative systems are going to go fight in a dog kennel or fenced in circle to prove the effectiveness of their system... It is the basic individual who trains and develops the mindset to use the tools in his tool box to survive a situation that dictates the use of force high enough in response of the initial attack..
  12. Toy Weapon

    Toy Weapon New Member

    Where are you?

    I train Silat Bela-Diri in Brisbane. My coach offers 'children' and adult classes. If you can keep up and if your parents permit, you can join in with the adult class. The way Lorry trains is all bare-handed combat until you reach 'Purple Belt' which takes about two years. In that amount of time you learn how to move so that every move counts and to position yourself 'correctly'. The knife is the second last/most dangerous weapon taught though you can rest assured that you will easily defend yourself against most armed attackers long before, if indeed ever, you reach that level.
  13. Toy Weapon

    Toy Weapon New Member

    ps. Yes, Silat is extremely effective.

    They can't hurt you if they can't touch you. Many martial artists get stuck on the 'theories' of Silat attacks and whether or not they are effective. Let me ask you this - how much pressure does it take when you kick someone in the nuts for the technique to classify as effective? Secondly, if someone tries to kick you in the nuts, can you effectively evade it? Well, I can. A grappling style is only effective if you can grab a hold of the person and a striking style is only effective if you can hit them. Silat includes grappling and striking techniques and the movement works on being 'untouchable', always slipping into 'blind spots' to make it awkward for the attacker while postitioning to effectively deliver counter-attacks.

    Probably a good demonstration of this is to get a guru or sensei or whatever coaches call themselves to spar with my coach (if he agrees to it). He can demonstrate without even returning a blow that when performed true to it's essence, you can be untouchable.

    ps. My coach, Lorry, is very down to earth. You can speak to him like a real person. He's just a really cool dude who is a great coach and true to the term "Human Weapon".


    Of course I can only speak from my perspective of training under a coach who wrote the book on the the variation of Silat that he coaches. He trains to cater for people looking for health benefits and a social club as well as to cater for the more intense students looking for effective competition and street defense training. At the moment he only trains two sessions of two hours per week (club budgets are limiting) so boxers and kickboxers tend to train it as an addition rather than as a complete supplement. The practical skills that he trains very effectively are suitable in competition environments as well as street environments with a massive list of club successes in competitions. Many people merge into Lorry's class from other martial arts backgrounds because he is simply that good. Lorry is in Brisbane, Australia.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2010
  14. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member

    Lorry sounds amazing,wouldnt want to run into him on a dark night:)
  15. Ular Sawa

    Ular Sawa Valued Member

    Hey FC. Where you been? It's been a long time. Hope all is well. Cheers!
  16. Toy Weapon

    Toy Weapon New Member


    Yeah, true that. Although he does have some very distinguished fighters who train under him in the classes (including at least one boxing coach I think and a kickboxing promoter), there isn't anyone who can compare with him as far as I know. That's a demonstration of his experience and focus as much as anything I guess.

    As far as the way he trains goes, it does take much longer for a newbie to become competent at the Silat way of repositioning and evading as a blocking method but when it all starts to come together, it really is very effective, even against much larger fighters. As I said, it is good as a competition foundation and as an effective street style.

    I love it.
  17. kilat02

    kilat02 Valued Member

    Silat is indeed praised as one of the most effective martial arts out there, due to the fact that indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines ect. was a melting pot off cultures and thus many arts from china, india, japan and europa came to thier lands.
    this offers great a variety of styles. so choose wisely there are styles (bongkot harimau, seta hati ect.) which focus very much on the sport aspect and do a lot of live sparring, body hardening ect. there are styles (pukalan styles) which are 100% self defence. or styles which focus on knife fighting. and even some "mombo jumbo" styles who think there in a freaking movie.

    it is very rare to find in the west a silat style who focus on all the areas of combat. your best shot to find such a style (probaly very traditional) is in the above named country's the home land of silat. even then it's still difficult to find a traditional school without the "fuzz"around it.

    for myself i always found it a brutal effective art in my line of work (private security: Cambuur Holland) during some riots it sure saved my ass plenty
    not as much that i had the knowledge of some dirty trick:evil:, but that silat gave me a fighters attitude and instinct.
  18. Toy Weapon

    Toy Weapon New Member

    Sounds like an idea for a new thread.

    Interesting what you say about Silat developing a 'fighters attitude'... In your profession it is a necessity but to an average person is it more of a hindrance? Many open doors for the submissive close on people who stand their ground... That is something that I have learned through the process of adopting a 'fighters attitude'.

    Lorry's class works for me. As far as I know he trains law enforcement, he trains security, also competition fighters alike. He covers the whole repertoire.
  19. kilat02

    kilat02 Valued Member

    It probaly can be a hindrance. silat has a very "over-kill" attiude. in some classes they call the opponent the enemy, since most arts where devolepd during war (Dutch colonial wars, tribal disputes ect.) and thus have a very war like attitude, unlike for instance aikido or other art's developd on the trainig floor (that doesn't make them any less effective thoug).

    but In my private life I'm not a blood drunk head hunter:hat:
    you alway's should be able to "Flip the switch". after such incidents( which are not so frequent). private security is 90% preventive help and preventing incidents before they occur. 10% acctualy diry handy work. and even that is still limeted by law.
  20. Wali

    Wali Valued Member

    "He can demonstrate without even returning a blow that when performed true to it's essence, you can be untouchable."

    With all due respect, as I haven't seen your teacher move, I've heard these types of claims many times and have never seen them work. The fact is that if someone with a moderate level of skill is attacking another person continuously, there will be some form of impact and connection at some point.

    I trained silat for many, many years and such things were also preached, but the reality was that there was always a hesitation on the students part to really attack the instructor in front of the class for fear of actually hitting him and making him look bad in front of the students.

    Having said that, I cannot say that in this instance your instructor can't genuinely do these things. Perhaps you can post some clips online to see what you are referring to.

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