Sikaran & Yaw Yan

Before what?

I applaud you guys for keeping this civil when it would be so tempting to let this degenerate into silliness. Well done

..... and keep it up.

 

Thank you Sir Wanlu for your courteous answer. I respect yaw yan very much. I just think Philippines has much to show world in kickboxing and can do much more if we have respect for all styles. Even if we defeat other style, still much can be learned from them and everyone.

 

Correction: Tadefa was declared winner in Tadefa-Zapata bout

This post, which shocked me because it is NOT TRUE that Zapata beat Tadefa, was brought to my attention a few days ago in another thread "Krabi-Krabong & FMA". What is even more shocking is that the official YawYan website also insinuated that Tadefa was defeated and even showed alleged photos of the bout. When I brought that error to the attention of MAP readers, that website suddenly reconstructed its photo gallery. It is still under constrution now. Coincidence? I do not know why anyone would spread such a malicous lie. Emil Zapata is a superb fighter and there is no need to build him up at the expense of another excellent and honorable fighter like Rolly Tadefa.

Wanlu, wittingly or unwittingly, became a spokesman for Yaw Yan propaganda when he brought out photos of Tadefa allegedly being "punished and eventually knocked out". The photos do not show that. The face of the person being hit by Zapata is not clearly seen. That person could be anyone, including Wanlu himself. In the real fight, which happened in 1984, nobody was knocked out but everytime Zapata tried to kick, he was floored several times by Tadefa. IN THE END, THE REFEREE DECLARED TADEFA THE WINNER OF THE BOUT. There is absolutely no truth that Rolly Tadefa was KO'd by Zapata.

Obviously, Wanlu did not witness that fight. Or maybe he was just asleep. If he had only followed his own advise and asked Tadefa who won the fight, he would have gotten an honest answer. IT WAS TADEFA WHO WON. I asked Rolly himself and he clearly told me that it was him who won the bout over Zapata.

Wanlu also erred in insinuating that Rolly Tadefa's students are blind fanatics who cannot be trusted to know the truth about their instructor. What makes him think that it can't be the other way around and it is the Yaw Yan people who cannot accept the fact that the great Emilio Zapata was defeated? I have friends from both Yaw Yan and Tadefa's school. It is unfair to side with one without getting the view of the other. Tadefa does not encourage cultism. He even told his students many times, "I am just a guide; I am not your master". On the other hand, YawYan members are instructed to call Nap Fernandez "Grandmaster". The training headquarters is called a "Temple". Advanced students are branded with a hot iron bearing the circular Yaw Yan logo. It is up to the readers to decide which group has the greater propensity to be fanatical.

Wanlu was correct in saying two things. One is he believes that Tat Kun Tou (not Tat Kun Tao) must be a good style. Two, he said that Rolly Tadefa is a good and honest man. I strongly agree on both counts.

I don't know if Wanlu is still active in MAP. But if he is, I have a proposal for him. Wanlu, you imply that you have more than a casual acquiantance with master Rolly Tadefa. However, you have gravely wronged Tadefa by perpetuating misinformation and tarnishing his good record. If you are on the side of TRUTH, and not politicking, then you have to make amendments. Follow your own advice, ask Rolly Tadefa who really won in that fight 21 years ago and tell the readers of MAP his honest answer. If you have lost contact with Rolly, PM me and tell me who you are and your contact number (preferably mobile phone) and I will forward it to Rolly who resides in Cebu City right now. If you are who you say you are, that you have been with Tadefa for a long time, there is no reason why he will not contact you.

It is time that this gross error be rectified. Master Rolly Tadefa is a personal friend who has to be granted the proper respect. If I had a friend in Yaw Yan who was likewise maligned, I would also do the same for him as I am doing for master Rolly Tadefa.

 

hmmm...as it is, objectivity really is key to providing anecdotes, infos, particulars. it helps in keeping things in perspective. also, historical facts have always been important in providing the correct insights- this has to be observed when posting comments...

very enlightening info, red...

 

To Red Bagani-abt Yaw-Yan

Hi RedBagani,
have seen ur mail in yao-yan sikaran thread.Can u plz explain abt the true history of yaw-yan,its techniques,and abt its new version yaw-yan Ardigma.
As the popular belief is it a combination of Taekwondo and Thai Boxing,or an imroved version of Sikaran or really is it 'Arnis without sticks'.How can be it compared to other emty handed styles in philippines like pangamut,sikaran etc and abt its weaponaries.
Thank u

 

On any given day any man from any style can beat another man from another style. It's the man not the style. But give yaw yan credit, they call themselves the deadliest art and at least they put up and competed. Unlike other styles that are just "too deadly" for competition or only oriented towards real combat and can't allow itself to be lowered for competition against other styles.

Something in favour of arts like yaw yan and tat kun tao are the fact that they are so cheap to train in. You can train steadily in yaw yan for 1/10th the cost of training in a rich kids' martial art like Brazillian Jiu Jitsu here in the Philippines. Because of this they have access to almost all of the lowest socio-economic strata here, which accounts for over 90% of the population. As well, the only people attracted to such arts would tend to be the toughest and most motivated "fighters." There are "wealthy" kids in yaw yan and tat kun tao, but again, these would be the toughest and most motivated. People who would be good fighters with or without the martial arts.

 

Seems like Diego Vega has the right end of the stick. Its the man, not the style. If you win or lose, its the people, not the style.

 

Ornery Mood

I am in such a good mood today I think I will pick on someone. Let me see... Ahhh, Diego Vega.

Mr. Diego Vega sir. Your sloppy spelling reflects a person with sleep deprivation. You should have spelled "Tat Kun Tou" and not Tat Kun Tao, which is a common mistake. Kun Tao is the way the Chinese Cantonese pronounce the term. In the Philippines, most Chinese are Fukienese in origin. Tat Kun TOU was developed by Jose Milan aka Joe Go in Cebu City. He was Fukienese. Kuntaw is how the Moro will spell their martial art. Kuntao is how the Indonesians and Malaysians would spell theirs.

A second error, sir... Tat Kun Tou and Yaw Yan are not "cheap". They are "affordable".

 

Hello Viking,
I can share with you what little I know about Yaw-Yan. Just rememember that I previously mentioned I only had a few months of formal training in Yaw Yan. What I can tell you is what I know about Yaw Yan in general, and certain techniques and fight strategies in particular. It would help if you could tell me more about your interest in Yaw Yan. That way I can give you answers that will be relevant to you. Are you interested in training to be a fighter in the ring? Or is it the self-defense aspect that appeals to you? Are you a martial arts connoissieur who wants a sample of Yaw Yan techniques? If you only have a vague idea of what you really want, that is okay too. I will just tell you what I know not only about Yaw Yan but also of other Filipino empty-handed arts too.
I suggest you start a new thread since I believe the discussion will go beyond YawYan & Sikaran. And don't address the topic or question only to me. Remember, this is a public forum.
I will briefly answer some of your questions. Nap Fernandez is a native of Quezon province (I think). Sikaran was developed in the town of Baras, which is also located in a Tagalog-speaking province. Yaw Yan and Sikaran developed independently of each other.
As to the claim that YawYan is Arnis without sticks, well, I am not so sure about that because it presupposes that YawYan has developed its own stickfighting style. I don't believe there is a genuine YawYan-style Arnis. If there is I have never heard of it. No such stylist participates in mainstream Arnis activities.
Yaw Yan seems to have learned something from Thai boxing early in its developing years. I don't think you can really blend Taekwondo and Muay Thai well. The styles are different in terms of movement and power generation.
As for the other questions, they really need a seperate thread.

 

As a Filipino, I reserve the right to spell any word any darn way I want to

 

And as a bad speller I will agree with you all the way.

As I have said before, if it were spelling we were all worried about we would be English teachers (now this that Amercian English or real English???)

Another little saying I always like to use when someone pulls up the spelling is:

You never worry about spelling the word 'twit' when your hitting one

Sorry I just could not resist it, being that I am in a good mood and off to train with Rey Galang tommorrow . Oh it's good to be a student too

Best regards

Pat

 

Not true at all...attached are pictures of Rolly Tadefa being punished and eventually knockedout by Emiliano Zapata at the Rizal Memorial Colseum...

I dont know Tat Kun Tao but if Rolly Tadefa is teaching that style, then it must be a good style. ...Rolly Tadefa is a good man and hes honest, if you ask him about his fights with Zapata, he will tell you the truth. Dont ask his students, its always hard for a student to admit that his instructor was defeated by another fighter...

Yes Yaw-Yans dont win in all their fights...but dominating the full contact scene since the mid 1970's is not a bad record for Yaw-Yan dont you think so...

Thanks for your interest in Yaw-Yan

Wanlu[/QUOTE]

Ahem. Maybe you were sleeping throughout the whole fight, my man. Nobody was knocked out during that Tadefa-Zapata fight. This photo shows that Tadefa was declared the winner and Zapata as the loser.

​

 

Late reply

I wasnt sleeping at that fight ...I wasnt there...I answered this in the other thread and again my apologies ...


Wanlu

 

I have been inactive in MAP for quite a while and Im answering it now...

MY SINCEREST APOLOGIES FOR THE MISTAKE...IT WAS NOT MEANT TO DEGRADE ROLLY TADEFA OR ANY OF HIS STUDENTS...IM NOT A CLOSE FRIEND OF TADEFA BUT WE WERE TOGTHER IN NUMEROUS EVENTS,PRIVATE AND PUBLIC WHEN WE WERE FORMING THE PHILIPPINE FOOTBOXING FEDERATION (PFBF)I WAS THE SECRETARY AND IT WAS ROLLY TADEFA HIMSELF WHO NOMINATED ME...BUT NOW HE MOST PROBABLY DOES NOT EVEN REMEMBER ME ANYMORE...

What I posted re the Tadefa vs Zapata fight is the Info I got from my Seniors...I will be meeting with Sir Zapata this weekend at the Makati gym and get the real score and publish it here and at the YawYan Chatline...

Im not stupid to make up stories...I was not at the fight but my claim was based on infos from my Seniors...but AGAIN I APOLOGIZE...

I have to confess that this is even the first time I heard your version of the fight and seeing the picture only proves you are correct and Im wrong...

As for the YawYan Website...Im not the WebMaster...If the Photo link is down as you claim...then thats good. I will ask YawYan USA to correct mistakes ASAP...Again,it was an honest mistake and again I apologize...

Believe me...If Tadefa is in Manila today, Id personally ask him about the fight...but for Now all I can do is to APOLOGIZE to all of you and again it was an honest mistake...

I have several photos of that fight that convinced me that Zapata won that fight...but your piece without a doubt proves me wrong...

FYI though...it was really Tadefa in m pictures and sad to say that no it wasnt me wearing Tadefas pants that night...WITH ALL DUE RESPECTS SIR, you seem to be in the scene longer than I have been with YawYan but if I may ask, is it not possible that we are talking of two different bouts...

Again, I will be meeting Pareng Zapata this weekend and will ask the real story and post it here...

MY APOLOGIES MY FRIENDS in MAP specially to RedBagani...and My SINCEREST APOLOGIES TO MR ROLLY TADEFA...

Wanlu Lunaria
Yaw-Yan Batch '88

 

I have respect for history as dose everybody else here in map, but it really doesnt matter to me what happend 21 years ago between to great fighters,because I know they both gave it their all,what does matter is what is happening right now.

How are the phillipino ma's doing in the asian striking tournaments?I would obviously like to see yawyan practitioners do well but then again I would love to see all phillipino styles do well considering the amount of knowledge they bring to the world stage.

Im looking very forward to this upcoming stikers elite tournament and how well team phillipines mauy thai does in the upcoming sea. Hopefully one day I can compeate along side the phillipino practinioners.

Unfortunately It wont be anytime soon.

But until then since where on the topic of Mr. Zapata and Mr.Tadefas are their any training tips they could share with us/me ?????

Thank you very much for the info though guys great thread.

 

Haha! in my time it was the complete opposite on the national level except maybe in aklan. We would send FRIENDLY challenges to everyone just to get some attention because everyone loved TKD, Aikido , karate and anything foreign instead of anything local. How disappointing and frustrating it was back then when Filipinos rejected their own kind. I heard it's changing.

Sikaran, Sarian, YY,Panuntukan ,Kali, escrima, arnis (any system) , etc. I don't care, I embrace anything Filipino. With technology (internet) we can now educate our very own people into knowing our very own is right up there (the best IMO) with any foreign MA. No need to travel away. Eveything is right in our backyard. It's proven in wars.

If they still insist on going foreign, no problema MORE FOR ME .

 

true . now, it's our time to take responsibility to change things for the better and go away with the politics involved in the past.

 

Greetings my friends…

At the recent YawYan fighting challenge held at YawYan Ardigma gym in Makati...I was seated beside Master Nap and Sir Emiliano Zapat and during the break, I managed to ask Master Nap about the Zapata-Tadefa fight but for some reasons, I cant post what the Master had to say about the fight and about Rolly Tadefa…

Sir Zapata however had a few things to say about the fight…

First of all let me emphasize that I was not at the Zapata –Tadefa fight and the ff are comments from Emiliano Zapata himself …

Zapata dominated the fight but lost over a decision. Tadefa won by a point.
Zapata also emphasized that he was cheated by a hometown decision since the fight was sponsored by Tadefa’s peers. The Philippine Yaw-Yan Assn and the Yaw-Yan Brotherhood as a whole felt cheated thus issued an invitation for a rematch but was declined by Mr. Tadefa SEVERAL TIMES…in fact, Tadefa never went in the ring again to fight…

Tadefa trained a fighter to go up against Zapata in the person of Mr. Domingo Catampatan. Mr. Catampatan was defeated by Zapata…Tadefa’s Camp asked for a rematch and was given to them and again Zapata defeated Mr. Catampatan…

As for the Zapata –Tadefa fight… my personal opinion is a lost is a lost and that’s why I apologized for posting that Zapata won that fight…however, the fact that Mr. Rolly Tadefa never granted Zapata the rematch, I have to say that it was not a convincing win. If Tadefa knew that he won the fight convincingly, Im sure he would have granted Zapata a rematch…

By the way…Mr Domingo Catampatan was one of the judges in the fights last night…and I asked him if he was present during the Zapata-Tadefa fight and if he could say anything about that. Unfortunately, he was not at that fight and cannot give comments about the Zapata-Tadefa fight …

During the times that I was with Mr Tadefa…the fight was never an issue. We were all good friends sharing one common interest-Filipino Martial Arts... I strongly believe that if we continue this line of probing…we might create a conflict and instead of promoting our FMA to the world, we might be doing the contrary.

The Zapata-Tadefa fight is history…Rolly Tadefa won. Convincingly or not…it probably doesn’t matter…

Yaw-Yan is a martial art and at the same time a Sport...Tat Kon Tou fighters or any fighters from any style are always welcome to join our fight nights...


Thanks for reading…


Wanlu

 

how did the fighting challenge go? would you care to post the results?

 

Re Fighting Challenge

The Yaw-Yan fighting challenge featured fighters from Yaw-Yan Pasay and Yaw-Yan Makati…Out of 10 very young Yaw-Yan fighters, 4 won by KO …4 won via decision…1 lost over a decision… and 1 had to settle for a draw…

The next event is at the Rizal stadium which will feature more seasoned fighters from YawYan...(Manla,Cebu and Cordillera)

Vicente Valdueza of YawYan Pasay will fight both at the URCC and the YawYan Challenge...


Thanks

Wanlu