Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by kungfucat, Jul 4, 2003.
at the top of this page there is a chat button next the calender forum...
OK...just a sec...I will explore
Just spoke to Master Bing , there's a class tonight 7-9pm.
He will have exciting stories to tell...went back to meet old teachers and see archaeological sites maybe etc etc
That's why it's called speculation ?
What's clear is that many esoteric arts have been kept alive and protected via " secret transmission" That's not speculation.
Wing Chun is another, till Yip Man threw open the flood gates in 1950's...and even then only to people of Chinese origin.
Bruce Lee was the first to make it accessible to non Chinese.
Sorry, you and I will have to differ on what's " Esoteric" means.
And about being "arrogant", unless anyone in your park group is skilled in Empty Force techniques, I wonder how I can gain from that group, given I'm not keen to learn new non Empty Force techniques.
Not arrogance, just reality.
Didn't mean to be rude.
I do have to agree with you , this posting makes it hard , and things do get misinterpreted in the postings easily in the absence of vocal cues.
So be it, that is the reality you wish to make,although I do find it a bit of a narrow view.
Hope your training goes well, if we meet we meet.
Each to his own.
I agree it is a narrow view.
But to me , that’s being “ focussed” and not scattering my energy.
Same thing different perspective…how very daoist eh ?
Just don't expect everyone to have the same opinion as you, even though you seem to covet the "teacher/guru" mode of relating to others.
the group will be learning more from me, than me them.
I think I understand why you might say this, based on the focus of your training, but it is an unfortunate attitude nevertheless since without meeting others you can never know what there is to learn or be shared.
Best to you, Syd
Never did have that expectation.
Am sorry you thought so.
I have nothing useful to teach your group, nor do I want to.
You all know more about Bagua, Tai chi , Yiquan, Xing Yi than I.
I know more about Empty Force than all of you combined, even though I'm only at apprentice level.
Since I'm interested in pursuing Empty Force only, and it has been suggested the park would be a good place to " demonstrate and educate" the lot of you , I'm justified in saying :
" the group will be learning more from me, than me them "
Now no need to be so sore if I don't want to join your happy park gathering where you all have your weekly meeting of minds. It's a good thing but ordinary chi-less IMAs are a thing of the past for me. If you saw the things Master Bing can do, you'll know what I mean.
Can't understand why this being discussed here...it has nothing to do with Master bing, the reason for this thread ?
Ah thank you for not thinking I am blindly arrogant.
You are right, I'm not joining your park group for the simple reason that I'm interested in pursuing Empty Force and your group is doing other things.
Don't think I'll be missing much, I have my share of IMAs previously, an am no longer content with IMAs of mere mortals.
After all, Daoists strive for Immortality....if you haven't realised that yet.
But once again Syd, Nzric, Azrael and others, thank you for the park invitation.
Maybe one day you might wake up to Empty Force and join me in my park.
chi-less IMA?! you crack me up
Comments such as...
Don't think I'll be missing much and an am no longer content with IMAs of mere mortals and who can forget hits like Maybe one day you might wake up to Empty Force... prove blind ignorance as well as arrogance. I think the truth of the matter is that we won't be missing much in your absence.
Even in the spite of your open condecension and disdain for all of us all the boys tried valiantly to give you the benefit of the doubt and offered a friendly meeting in the spirit of humble comradery and common ground. You have replied with such a degree of superiority and arrogance as to warrant no further interest from me personally. I won't speak for the other lads but as far as I am concerned I couldn't possibly benefit from an association with you, given the attitude you hold so dear.
Sorry boys I had to say it... apologies.
As a lurker my jaw dropped on that reply "Pandajelly" gave. Kinda verbally hit you guys on the way in and and the way out. It really made me realize what you're going to be "missing" if he doesn't come down to your park sessions. And truely, with his study of "empty force", he is in a class by himself.
oh... wait... check that, I'm pretty sure Yellow Bamboo is in there with him.
Personally I'm sorry that I'm half a world away because I'd kill for that type of invite and the chance to work with you guys.
I absolutely agree to that. Even just the chance to watch you guys, let alone join in, would be superb
This is what I have been trying to tell you all along.
Am glad you finally realise it
Even in the spite of your open condecension and disdain for all of us all the boys tried valiantly to give you the benefit of the doubt and offered a friendly meeting in the spirit of humble comradery and common ground. You have replied with such a degree of superiority and arrogance as to warrant no further interest from me personally.
I agree with the superiority bit, but arrogance is a matter of perspective.
Empty Force may not be the Ultimate IMA but IMHO it is superior to the park calistechnics you do.
I can safely comment this way as I've experienced both.
Have you ?
Sorry about the arrogance, can't help it if I've switched to a car and you're still happy with a bicycle.
If you think this is arrogance, think back to the number of times you guys (not you specifically Syd) have snickered, sneeered and blown off Empty Force ideas when it was mentioned to you. Now be honest, think . I can also safely say I have tested the waters having been in ALL IMA classes in the area at least once , and have heard this snickering first hand , yes even from Mainland Masters too.
The fact is I now know something you guys don't because you did not appreciate what was offered.
Casting pearls before swine eh?
Opportunity knocks on everyone's door at least once in their life time.
Were you listening then ?
superior to the park calistechnics you do.
Wow, the mind boggles...
pandajelly, from my own perspective (and please note that I am speaking as someone who has literally only just stared on my IMA journey) I have never experienced, or met anyone who has experienced either positive or negative aspects to this thing you call empty force.
I am aware, as no doubt you are too, of accounts from people who say that they went to see Master 'X' who is purportedly proficient in 'empty force' and that when Master 'X' tried this out on the person(s) nothing happened.
Without wishing to blow my own trumpet, i like to think of myself as being very open minded to virtually everything. Whilst I will question things, and sometimes come across as a bit of a pratt in the way I speak to people, it is really just a way of trying to uncover the truth (whatever that may be) and not meant as a personal attack etc.
I think it is fair to say that in order to fully grasp a concept such as empty force, one needs to witness it and even experience it first hand. Whilst it may be that some people here have sniggered and jeered about something that you truly believe in, from where I stand it appeared that this invitation to the park was not so that the masses could point the finger at you and laugh.
Even if your new direction is like switching to a car whilst the rest are on bikes, does it really get any of us anywhere by continuing to take pot shots at each other and our arts? Surely by a meeting of minds, so to speak, these misconceptions and barriers can be removed, and maybe some of these sniggering people will understand what it is that you prize so dearly.
I dont personaly believe that others get something and you get nothing out of meeting and discussing ideas with other fellow IMA's regardless of what level they are at etc. At a very basic human level, you get to be heard by your fellow IMA's and perhaps stop the sniggering that seems to bug you so much.
Whatever the outcome, I sincerely hope that you continue your own personal journey with fulfillment
Matt_Bernius & Shade,
You aint missing much.
Most of that group ( 3 -4 ?)are beginners, some have a bit more experience .
Most don’t speak Mandarin.
Some even think Chi is not Energy, but a combination of Hypnosis and efficient body mechanics.
But it’s IMA they practising !
But I do admire the fact they have the initiative to band together to help each other…a most noble effort.
Just hope it doesn’t turn out to be a the blind-leading-the-blind….as none of them have the skill level of a master in their respective IMA to guide and correct, so hopefully they won’t be reinforcing mistakes.
Hopefully they will consider getting insurance coverage for reasons of public liability….it is a “ lethal art” they are practising in a park eh ?
You can form you own group in the US, just post a message on the US forums.
*L* Oh man, time to get the popcorn.
To play Devils Advocate, you couldn't possibly say what I am not missing without having been yourself.
But on a serious note, these guys have most certainly given me massive encouragement if nothing else (although they have also given me a lot of excellent information) which to a newbie like me is invaluable.
From my perspective, they may still be begginers but so am I. More so than any of them. Frankly I don't think for a minute that they would try and correct my form per se, but even practising things like push hands to me is important (my wife and son dont always want to help me and I cant really do it with furniture )
Not speaking Mandarin doesn't bother me. I dont speak it and my teacher doesnt speak it to me in class. I don't see what this has to do with anything really?
In my mind I wonder if Chi is whatever you personally believe it to be. I know who you are referring to regarding hypnosis and body mechanics. Personally I would meet and train with this guy in an instant. If that is his feeling and understanding of Chi, it doesn't affect me in any way or the ability for us to share ideas and practice together. If anything it gives us something to discuss so that I can understand (hopefully) why he believes this.
Maybe one day I will come across the door of empty power. To me it would be a genuine shame if I felt I couldnt possibly discuss it with other IMA's because in some way i felt superior to them. I would imagine that I would be fairly advanced in the IMA to even FIND the door, and to me it seems that ego should be left outside.
Separate names with a comma.