Sifu Bing Zhao - IMA master

Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by kungfucat, Jul 4, 2003.

  1. Kat

    Kat Valued Member

    I trully don't think this is a heated debate.Nor is anyone trying to get details for anyone.Although I do apologize if this is considered coming on too strong.
    People are offering to meet and train together.As I said considering we are from the same city that seems a logical and beneficial idea.

    If you don't want too, fine,simply say No Thanks, but making blanket statements to infer that other IMA people "have little appreciation" unable " to demonstrate their desire and dedication first"(unlike you ofcause!)or are "someone who just wants to check it out (for fun) or in the process of shopping around" do seem a tad inflamatory.Once again a diachotomy is created, when none need exist.
    Just seems a loss not to come together.Acknowledge that there are different methods each excellent in there individual outlook.
    I have a strong background in Yiquan and am sure we could find some partner work and drills in common.
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2004
  2. nzric

    nzric on lookout for bad guys

    First of all, I didn't know Bing was an empty power guy, but I respect his decision to take on as many students as he wants. He's running a business after all and if he is happy with the size and make-up of his classes, that's fair enough.

    I like to think most of the people in this forum have fairly open minds and even if a few of us don't believe in empty power, we all have an honest willingness to learn. The problem is empty power is an experiential topic - we can debate it in thread after thread here, but the fundamental point is we're not going to change our positions until/unless we see it/feel it ourselves. While us non-empty power believers respect people like you and SC honestly believe it, you need to respect the fact that it makes sense to be sceptical about things like that.

    I've been learning IMA for three years now and I've seen and felt a lot of "freaky stuff" that has caused me to change my beliefs. If I had the chance to see a real demonstration of empty power who knows, that may change my pov as well.

    Syd, Adc and I have been meeting in the park to share knowledge in an open forum without any pretensions about lineage or style arguments - as we have said, the idea is to blend things, bring ideas and have an open forum. If anyone brought ego into it, I am confident to say that the rest of us would swiftly tell them to pi** off and stop wasting our time. Don't think it's a competitive thing - the bottom line is there aren't many of us in Sydney who are committed to IMA and we should be able to sit around at a Yum Cha or push hands/pass round ideas in the park and just have a good time.

    We all have different viewpoints about the internal arts - that's the important thing. It's wrong to say certain people don't have the skills/experience/willingness/discipline to learn what you've learned - you could never know that about someone else. We should all just appreciate the fact that our different opinions makes these threads a lot richer. It would be pretty boring if we all agreed on everything.
  3. theaustralian

    theaustralian New Member

    i'm glad were on the same page now, i think that what nzric said how we have to see or feel it for ourselves and we all have different oinions is the key point. I see nothing wrong with discussing different styles and would like to know more about the people who dont particually believe empty power even after seeing or feeling it? where does every1 stand on believing it or not?
  4. Azrael

    Azrael Fighting Spirit

    Personally, I do not know when I will be able to make it to one of the park meets, but am most definately looking forward to doing so in the the very near future. Sounds like alot of fun and a chance to learn alot and meet some great people.

    Pandajelly: I was just wondering if the reason behind your motives for withholding such relativly easy to find information was because the art in question is Xing Yi, or because the person teaching it is Bing Zhao?

    Yeah, but at least the new recruits knew where to find the temple. :p
  5. Kat

    Kat Valued Member

    I was also unaware that your focus was Empty force although I have practised with serveral styles of Xingyiquan practioners all whose focus was far from concerned with this topic.

    I would guess your'll have to define what you mean by empty force?
    My understanding
    Re : Kongjin empty/vacant,method
    In conversations I have had it refers to issueing intense power using small movements(seemingly deriving from nowhere)from a vacant mind targeted at precise areas/angles.I have experienced this on a number of occasions.
    I think it is a common goal of IMA to prefect fluid explosive movement channeled by intent(but seemingly before intent can be felt by the opponent) without agression or fear, appiled with excellent timing and optimun distancing.Within language it is usually placed as an accumulation and combination of a higher level then other methods.(tingjin,fajin,pijin,etc)

    I am aware that there are other interpretations refering to physical control of others by not touching them.I have not experienced this,taught or been taught this nor do I believe it is the Kongjin I am refering to.I have seen demostrations (including one in Australia by Dr Fong of Imperial Yang tranfering Qi through a staff,and some in Beijing)all of which could not be repeated on me or my training partners.
  6. SanYuan

    SanYuan New Member

    I have known Master Zhao for some time. He is firstly a Daoist and everything else is secondary to him. His aim is to teach people about Dao as was taught in china for thousands of years.

    As a Daoist the word 'empty' is a key of its philosophy and a ruling principle in its application. Perhaps it is misleading but there is no other word.

    Master Zhao first learnt internal martial arts and later learnt about Daoism, discovering that in China, the practice of IMAists and Daoists was identical amongst his teaches, always following the same principles.

    As a Daoist in a foreign country, he tries is best to explain its principles through explenation and examples.

    Out of the respect his students have for him, most do no want to freely attract people who might be more interested in proving him wrong than becoming an honest student, i know i fell more confident in recommending some one i know than some one i don't.

    I am smiling and curious about peoples discussion of Bing, i know i respect him as much as my own parents and i know he wouldn't want people squabble over him.

    Kind regards,
  7. Kat

    Kat Valued Member

    I don't think we are discussing Zhao or squabbling over him but its interesting that you perceive it that way.
  8. pandajelly

    pandajelly New Member

    Think there's something wrong with your Inbox:
    Maybe it's too full ?

    This is the "bounce" message I got:

    Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)
    This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.
    Delivery to the following recipients failed.

    In any case, Scott, Master Bing is backfrom China , and the next class is this Sat 4pm in the " same place" which I hope is the same school when you last attended a year ago.

    Maybe you can try and fix your Inbox and I'll send you specific contact details again. ( Maybe you can test it first by getting a frined to email you etc etc)
  9. pandajelly

    pandajelly New Member

    Am glad you have spent sometime in China and experienced first hand contact with IMA there.
    By esoteric , I refer to the type of IMA, not language or culture.
    Even among locals in China , Master Bing’s stuff is considered highly esoteric and not advertised in newspapers or internet .
    Admission ( in China) is by introduction , in accordance with the old ways, which has served it well for centuries.

    When I asked Master Bing about increasing his public profile in Sydney, he explained there was no need to, nor was it a good idea.
    When he was a little more public several years back ,it did attract the wrong attention , anything from triad members to curious onlookers.
    “So how is a genuine student able to find you?“ I asked
    He said, if you find me , then it was meant to happen and it is your good fortune.

    His classes are not taught underground and in secret.
    He has no “ selection criteria”.
    The “ selection criteria” is really within yourself….you got to find him and appreciate what he is saying.
    Many hear but some don’t listen.

    I like to clarify another misperception.
    I am not holding the only keys to the “ True Way”
    Sanyuan, theaustralian1 and myself all found Master Bing in our own way, like many others.
    Even you Kat, found him on your own … so how difficult was that ?
    How can it be said that no one comes to Master Bing except thru me?
    theaustralian1 was a former student, now interested in resuming classes, I’m merely passing contact details.

    For those who are truly interested in learning Master Bing’s “style” , the suggestion I can give you is to “persist and preserve” in your search.
    Focus more on asking / learning instead of criticising and one day the ‘ door” will come before you.
    This was how it was for me.
    Took me a long time and much effort before I stumbled onto Master Bing.
    Corny as it may sound there is truth to the Chinese Adage, “ When the student is ready, the teacher will appear”
  10. nzric

    nzric on lookout for bad guys

    check the spelling
  11. pandajelly

    pandajelly New Member

    If it is so " relatively easy" then I'm not really a barrier eh? "

    ..but the withholding is out of respect for Master Bing's wishes.

    And it is because of Master Bing and his art, not XingYi
  12. pandajelly

    pandajelly New Member

    Thanks Barry,
    You took the words right out of my mouth !
  13. pandajelly

    pandajelly New Member

    without going into specifics, what we learn in Master Bing's class seems similar to what you describe.

    The mechanics may differ, but the effect " sounds similar"
    The ' energy" is issued with /without contact and with / without movement.

    Since you have met him before, I'm curious to know if you took any lessons for any period of time, and why you did not continue. Maybe you know something I haven't realised yet ?
  14. Kat

    Kat Valued Member

    Not many MA is advertised in newspapers or internet.Letters of introduction is how its still done in most schools.Again this tells me more about how you veiw myself and others.Terms such as "Esoteric" and "in accordance with the old ways, which has served it well for centuries" are subjective and best left to fiction writing. Language and Culture can make the most mundane things seem "Esoteric"re: subjective.

    OK another "misperception"
    You seem to think the main point of my posts is to go to your school. I don't beleive I mentioned anything about you not posting his details nor do I have any objection with this.If anything I was stimulated to post because of your inability to address others equally and to offer and reaffirm a meeting time to talk and train together.No reference to BZ but rather to you Sanyuan and the Australian.

    The reference to the True Way was a stab at an all too common attitude that one's teacher and lineage most hold the superior teaching that others can not envisage.This attitude comes through to me, clearly in your posts.
    Perhaps its all an incorrect assumption.
    Maybe there's alot of broken communication going on as I constanctly don't seem to be able to commicate well over this medium, but either way its petty clear you have no intention of meeting.

    Doesn't this strike you as condescending?As I hope I have made clear the only thing I am criticizing is your attitude to others, an attitude I do not wish to learn.Regaurdless this is an example in my understanding of only seeing others as inferior.Thank You for your wisdom.:rolleyes:
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2004
  15. pandajelly

    pandajelly New Member

    Syd and Azrael,
    Thank you for the kind invitation.
    Unfortunately whilst I do XingYi, it is the Empty Force aspect that makes it "pointless" for me to join your well intentioned park training sessions.

    We train in ways that do not require a partner and we don't really "spar" on a regular basis.
    And at the risk of sounding arrogant" , the group will be learning more from me, than me them.

    It is not our intention to "educate and demonstrate" this to the general public ( it's in a park for goodness sake !)

    It reminds of the Bagua dude Dong Hai Chuan who learnt from 2 Daoist priests and made BaGuaZhang public in 1850's....even thought Bagua has probably been around since the Dao De Ching ( 500BC ?)
    Goes to show that " secret transmission " of an esoteric art has it's place, even today.

    Also I'm concerned I might accidentally "zap" one of you guys.
    None of us are insured yeah ?

  16. theaustralian

    theaustralian New Member

    Think there's something wrong with your Inbox:
    Maybe it's too full ?

    This is the "bounce" message I got:

    Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)
    This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.
    Delivery to the following recipients failed."

    Im not sure whats wrong with it my freinds are geting that message too dosn't matter tho. Ill try to get there on sat hopefully see you then :) thanks for your help again panda.

  17. pandajelly

    pandajelly New Member

    so you know the "place " ?

  18. theaustralian

    theaustralian New Member

    i think it would be the same "place" hey i think were both online now can you go into chat now?

  19. pandajelly

    pandajelly New Member

    Chat ? How do you do that ?
    yes we are online now
  20. Kat

    Kat Valued Member

    Yes have meet him,Nice Chap.
    There are more simularities within IMA styles and lineages then there are differences. Accepting and acknowledgeing this is important.

    Your are right, its sounds arrogant.

    Please don't speculate on the orgin of BGZ as though its fact.

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