Side Kicks ... Heel or Blade of Foot ?

Discussion in 'Hapkido' started by BackFistMonkey, Aug 28, 2005.

  1. austinso

    austinso Valued Member

    Puhahahahah~! God no...

    Some people think that the Olive Garden is fine Italian food...whatever...all I can say is good for you...find your audience and continue.

    It is sad to see that HKDists regardless of affiliation, do not know or search the history of HKD beyond that which is used to sell their particular school, particularly when it comes to the development of techniques.

    Hapkido first came to Hong Kong in the late 1960's with Kim Jin Pal. The first Hong Kong movie showcasing Hapkido was filmed in 1970-1 (initially released as "Hapkido", but later changed to "Lady Kung Fu"). Because of that movie Bruce Lee hired Ji Han Jae and Hwang In Shik for his series of movies. Show me a chambered kick in this movie by either of these two HKD masters. Telegraphing kicks is a remnant of Karate/TKD prior to 1980 and it is only after the 80's that it has changed. The ITF still does it the Shotokan way.

    If you want to ride on the Bruce Lee wagon, then go right ahead...

    Austin

    P.S. I'm glad you can do a blade kick with "damage"...and frankly if that is the way that side kick evolved for you and it is enough, then good for you. You wonder why people fall on their asses when they kick? Then maybe they aren't kicking properly. Commenting on how Bong Soo Han does a kick _from a video or a book_ is not what I call an authoritative source on how it is done by GM Han.
     
  2. JimH

    JimH Valued Member

    Quote
    "all I can say is good for you...find your audience and continue."

    Thank you for your permission, I will.

    Thank you for the History of Hapkido as it relates to Hong kong and the Movies,

    Ji han Jae Met Bruce Lee through GM Rhee who was and has been credited with teaching/showing Bruce Korean Karate.

    They,Lee and Rhee met through Ed Parker.

    Bruce Lee was doing Kicks of Northern Style Kung Fu,he states this in his books,he also credits James Lee with influencing his kicking style,there is mention of GM Rhee in Bruce's books,but not of any Hapkidoists other than their participation in his movies.

    Quote
    "It is sad to see that HKDists regardless of affiliation, do not know or search the history of HKD beyond that which is used to sell their particular school"

    Yes I am sad,to not know the History of arts I was reading about when you were not born yet and arts that I was doing when you were in diapers,lol.

    Quote
    "Telegraphing kicks is a remnant of Karate/TKD prior to 1980 and it is only after the 80's that it has changed. The ITF still does it the Shotokan way."

    Didn't I say many changes happened to TKD and Hapkido kicks after the 80s in another thread on other kicks?
    (the method of instruction for the ITF and Shotokan is a teaching tool as are high kicks in TKD and Hapkido)

    It is funny that Bill Wallace,sorry non hapkido,says to learn to make a good kick one must learn to get the knee up high in chamber and shoot it out from there,the higher the knee the higher the kick.
    (hey what does he know,right?)

    Sorry but the changes to non chambered telegraphic kicks began in the late 60s ,as said ,this was written about by Bruce Lee back then.

    Quote
    "Hapkido first came to Hong Kong in the late 1960's with Kim Jin Pal"

    According to Jin Pal Kim's bio,he went to Hong Kong in 1970 to be in movies,sorry not 60.(maybe you made a typo)

    Quote
    "If you want to ride on the Bruce Lee wagon, then go right ahead..."

    Now I am on the Bruce Lee wagon,last post I was on the CH wagon,I am so versitile I can drive or ride on many wagons,lol.

    I made one remark about Bruce Lee having influence on changing the concept of Chambered kicks and I am on a band wagon,or did you think that by throwing out the Hapkido reference and Bruce, in your previous posts ,was supposed to shut me down .WRONG.

    Quote
    "Commenting on how Bong Soo Han does a kick _from a video or a book_ is not what I call an authoritative source on how it is done by GM Han."

    So Bong soo Han ,the Father of American Hapkido,is not an authority on the techniques of Hapkido??

    The Book is a basic instructional application on Hapkido.

    Are you saying GM Han was wrong in his explanations and demonstrations in his book?

    Did he not approve the book with its direct circle of the area of contact and the description of performance of technique?

    How about his explanations ,of the same ,on his videos?
    A mistake also I guess?


    Thank you for another Great lesson in Hapkido history.

    So far you said the Hapkido side kick was always heel and I proved,with credible resource,you were wrong.

    You told me of the History of Hapkido in Hong Kong and I showed you with GM Kims own bio ,you were wrong.

    Care to set me straight on more History?

    Provide some proof of what you say to be the truth of traditional Hapkido.
    Can you?
    (if it has always been then the proof is there to be found)

    Quote
    "It is sad to see that HKDists regardless of affiliation, do not know or search the history of HKD beyond that which is used to sell their particular school, particularly when it comes to the development of techniques."

    I guess you are right,lol.

    But then I am the evil step child of Hapkido called "Combat Hapkido" and I ride the Bruce Lee band wagon.
    (Is that more like that is the childish crap you are used to on your martial arts forums,lol)

    I have Demostrated over and over what was and what is now a side kick,maybe some,not you,are now aware of what they may not have known.

    If you believe you know all there is fine.

    I know I do not know it all,but I do know somethings.

    Thanks to your permission in the above post ,I will continue to speak my mind and help or enlighten others.

    If it annoys then do not read it or post a substantial objection,with more proof than "it has always been".

    Sorry,but what is now said by you to be the truth is not so because you say it is so.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2005
  3. hollywood1340

    hollywood1340 Valued Member

    Here we go again....
     
  4. austinso

    austinso Valued Member

    You are right Jimbo...I'm just really naive and an imbecile when it comes to hapkido...certainly when it compares to the wealth of knowledge, the sheer experience, and the incredible skill you quite obviously hold...I can only weep at the state of HKD when it has spokespeople like you as its standard bearer...

    Some people do the blade, some people do the heel, some people use the ball...I guess they are _all_ right...isn't that so? Everybody is right and nobody is wrong...why can't we all just get along? Some people drive an automatic, some drive standard...but it's just driving anyway, ain't that right Jimbo?

    Austin
     
  5. JimH

    JimH Valued Member

    Quote
    "Some people do the blade, some people do the heel, some people use the ball...I guess they are _all_ right...isn't that so?"
    Austinso#44

    2 Quotes
    "The side kick using the Blade is a wide edge so it is not as penetrating as the heel kick which is more target specific,both kicks can be delivered with good stopping power."

    "Again,as long as what you are taught works when needed then it is a good technique."

    JimH #4

    Yes ,I would agree that some do the Heel,some do the toe and some the blade and yes all are right,as long as they work when needed.

    Quote
    "I'm just really naive and an imbecile when it comes to hapkido...certainly when it compares to the wealth of knowledge, the sheer experience, and the incredible skill you quite obviously hold...I can only weep at the state of HKD when it has spokespeople like you as its standard bearer..."

    Sorry,I Never called anyone anything and certainly not imbecile.

    I never claimed a wealth of knowledge,just giving a piece of Hapkido history and knowledge that some,including yourself do/did not know.

    I do not claim to be a standard bearer for anything,but if you make a claim then defend it with sources or resources.
    I have.
    Have you?
    ("thats the way its always been" is not a source,thats a misguided interpretation of the truth)

    Hapkido is in a sad state when its participants are closed minded to what was and what is and the differences.

    Thank You for the insightful debate,I learned alot.
     
  6. BackFistMonkey

    BackFistMonkey Valued Member

    Austino ... ummm I thought JimH did well on this thread making it clear he wasnt screaming "ONLY ONE WAY TO DO IT AND THATS THE R3@L HAPKIDO WAY !!!111!!one!!" . But instead was offering good advice and actually making good points .....
     
  7. austinso

    austinso Valued Member

    Yes in this instance he was quite lucid...I on the other hand was not.

    Oh well...

    Austin
     
  8. BackFistMonkey

    BackFistMonkey Valued Member

    * shrugs * I havent seen or heard of anyone crying so you couldnt have been to bad .....

    and as a side note .... USE THE HEEL !!
     
  9. JimH

    JimH Valued Member

    Use what works (for you and the situation).
     
  10. nj_howard

    nj_howard Valued Member

     
  11. BackFistMonkey

    BackFistMonkey Valued Member

    Jim Stop being reasonable ..... :D

    and I saw an article on sidekicks in the TKD section thats ... enlightening and highlights alot of the differences with TKD mentality and HKD mentality ... If youve read up to here and arent familiar with TKD checkout what the TKD people are saying .

    http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39028
     
  12. austinso

    austinso Valued Member

    I know, I know...it came out wrong...poor writing on my part...I meant that it is better to see him "in action" or talk to him (or Ji Han Jae, or Hwang In Shik or any other for that matter) in person rather than rely on instructional video tapes which are often "watered" down or simplified.

    Like in his instructional tapes, he or his student demonstrate a number of kicks which seem overly chambered or snappy, but then when _he_ lets loose, it looks great.

    That is what I mean, and I hope that what I'm sayng makes sense this time...

    Austin
     
  13. spektrum_08

    spektrum_08 New Member

    I don't know how you can do that. I remember being at the Ontario Classic in 2004 for tae kwon do. And i saw a guy break his foot doing a side kick with the ball of his foot. How do you do a side kick properly with the ball of your foot anyways? Isn't your heel supposed to be higher than your toes? I'm actually really curious now.

    For me personally, I like to use the blade of my foot, or my heel. The heel is more powerful, but the blade of the foot hurts more.
     
  14. Hiroji

    Hiroji laugh often, love much

    When i did karate we did the side kick using the blade. When doing side kick drills in thin air i had no real problems. When it came to kicking pads or the heavy bag, i found it much easier and less painfull to kick using the heel.

    I always use the heel now in kickboxing.
     
  15. DCombatives

    DCombatives Valued Member

    I seem to have come to this thread a little late (14 months). It's my belief that neither is "better" or "more correct". Rather, the question is: which can I do while wearing my typical shoes? I wear boots a lot which makes turning the foot over for the blade almost impossible. As a result, I train to kick with the heel. People fight the way they train, so it only makes sense to train the way you're going to fight. If I were you, I'd get dressed the way you'd go to work or to the mall and see which works better for you.
     
  16. MJR

    MJR Valued Member

    One of our members did. But that is another story...
     
  17. MJR

    MJR Valued Member

    One of our members did. But that is another story...
     
  18. wazzabi

    wazzabi sushi eater

    if u wanna train with Master Hwang in Shik, just move to toronto. hahaha. kinda sucks for me since im in my 3rd year of university, i can't goto the dojang as much as i like to, so i'm forgetting alot of what i learn. o well. i go at least once a week, but i don't think it's enough. :confused:
     
  19. Plato

    Plato New Member

    There are many kinds of side kicks. It depends on the target.
     
  20. TheeFlash

    TheeFlash New Member

    exactly, it also depends on what type of damage you intend to inflict. I'm a 1st dan in TKD and there were a bajillion ways to do a side kick. Now before I get all the "this isn't TKD" comments, I'm looking in a HKD book to get all the different side kick striking surfaces.

    Kicks:

    1)Side Thrust Kick
    2)Side Snap Kick
    3)Side Rising Kick
    4)Side Push Kick
    5)Back Side Kick
    6)Side Split Kick
    7)Drop Variations
    8)Drop Twin Variations
    9)Seated Variations
    10)Jumping Variations

    Striking Surfaces:

    1)Ball of the Foot
    2)Kinfe Edge of the Foot
    3)Heel
     

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