Sick of BJJ

Discussion in 'Ju Jitsu' started by jujutsu_kid, Jun 23, 2006.

  1. Dhalsim-on

    Dhalsim-on Banned Banned


    Ninjutsu can be a way of life and whilst very rare there are people I would describe as ninja around... so I'd say you were wrong. People that think ninjutsu is about dressing in black and sneaking round in the dark are wrong, its far more holistic than that. Sadly many of the people who do ninjutsu don't even get that! Personally I prefer to leave it to people to think whatever they like to think, fact is, we all train in the way we think best and in the arts we want to pursue. I like to banter now and then though!

    I used to have muay thai instruction but I moved onto other things. I still do padwork/bagwork/shadow boxing... which I consider solo muay thai. If you don't that's fair enough, I'll continue to train the way I do. :cool:
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2009
  2. spidersfrommars

    spidersfrommars Valued Member

    Ok as long as you have had proper instruction at some point, and arn't doing one of those "self taught" disasters.
    As for describing people as ninjas well... I still find this terably silly. Perhaps it's because I've not seen any ninjitsu that wasn't just dressing up in black and LARPing. If you have any evidence of such ninjitsu existing please post it. Don't get me wrong there's nothing wrong with LARPing for its own sake but when you start claiming to actualy be what you dress up as then thats just a wee bit crazy.
     
  3. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

    Con-

    ERRONEOUS! Erroneous on all accounts! (not really I just wanted to say that)

    Spiderfrommars is proof enough at the state of ninjutsu in today's culture. It was completely ruined by the ninja boom because ninja are "cool" and "the ultimate badass" blah blah blah. Ninja movies, games, the whole Ninjas vs Pirates thing, old school crap movies; its all the same. Karate kid slightly ruined Karate. I bet there are plenty of people who have studied Karate and heard someone say "oooo Daniel-san!" or "STRIKE FIRST. STRIKE HARD. NO MERCY SIR. " or of course "wax on!!! Daniel san!" or some other kind of tease. And that was just ONE movie.

    Ninjutsu is thought to be fake, and movie magic, and about black clad asians jumping around throwing "ninja stars" and swinging nunchucks. I dont think its possible to find ANY art that is so badly misrepresented in popular media and culture as ninjutsu.

    Spider-

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wul3O_0d0YI"]YouTube - Genbukan appears on Discovery Channel[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2009
  4. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

    Now that Im thinking of it:

    -Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
    -Power Rangers
    -GI Joe
    -Naruto
    -Ashida Kim
    -Every fighting game ever
    -Last Samurai for frick sake
    -Ultimate Ninja on G4
    -Anime (ninja scroll was awesome wooo!)
    -Hundreds of fake ninja dojo
    -Crap Bujinkan videos
    -This: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLsNRpJ_axI"]YouTube - Konigun Ninjutsu - Suzume dojo[/ame]


    The list goes on and on

    But I digress: (on topic)

    I AM kinda sick of hearing about BJJ and MMA, but the popular references are all really cool things. Cage matches where people beat the crap out of each other, movies like Fighting and Never Back Down that relate to teenage angst but also show "realistic" (lol) moves. Thats fine and dandy, and if it gets more people into MA then thats great.

    As much as I hate when people snicker when I say Ive practiced Japanese Jujutsu or any other TMA, the fact is that this whole uprising of BJJ will come back full circle like all the other MAs that had their time in the spotlight, and there will be new innovations and philosophies that come out of it. You can see it already in the present UFC as opposed to the beginning, as far as striking goes.

    Also, the more people that learn BJJ, the easier it will be for me to beat them with unorthodox techniques :)
    Fingerlock FTW!
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2009
  5. Korpy

    Korpy Whatever Works

    If you are so sick of hearing about BJJ and MMA, then go out, compete, and bring some legitimacy to your art. That's why BJJ is so revered. It's been proven time and time again in Submission Wrestling, MMA,Vale Tudo, and self defense. What has Ninjutsu done? Nothing, except for fantasy and LARPing.

    So unless you fight to keep you art out of McDojo/BS category then go out and fight. If not, then stop bitching.
     
  6. Connovar

    Connovar Banned Banned

    Its much easier and less scarry to fantasize about fighting and to pretend fight like they do with their two man kata's then to actually fight.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2009
  7. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

  8. Happy Feet Cotton Tail

    Happy Feet Cotton Tail Valued Member

    Connovar, how have you proven anything? You've been in a dojang, I've read the books, you may have the physical ability of the art, (though I doubt that becuase ninjutsu involves ground fighting. and you still proclaim it's just standard issue mcdojo garbage)

    Frankly your ignorance of nijutsu shows that your talking out of your ****.


    Now onto the BJJ has been proven time and time again ********, remember that gracie tour, How many fights was thier? How many of them were the famous gracies against some nobody? and out of ALL those fights, how many tapes were actually released? ;)

    The gracies as well as being great martial artist are incredible business people who understand publicity very well.

    Frankly their are plenty of stories of BJJ getting messed up in the street, from professional UFC grapplers getting stabbed mid triangle lock, to them knocking themselves unconcious after banging their head on the corner of a table during a flying armbar. I've honestly yet to come across a story outside of my inciddent a while ago where BJJ was an outright success self defence wise. It's known for it's commerciality and sport success, not it's self defence.



    Now considering that the vast majority of martial arts rely heavily on incapacitating opponents quickly that rules alot of stuff out.

    Whether you choose to admitt it or not MMA is incredibly ground grappler friendly.

    No groin shots, - one of the biggest problems with the guard is if he breaks his hands of in a real fight he will promptly pound your nut sack to a pulp. Plus alot of stances taken in the stand up clinch phase in the sport world, make the assumption that the groin is automatically "safe".

    No wrist locks, frankly BJJ wise I am okay but the number of times where I am grabbed in some free-practise on the floor or standing up and I'm thinking, "If I was allowed to I'd just shift my elbow over and keep pressure on the inside of the wrist and Bam, it'd be fight over." Frankly if your grabbed by an attacker who is trying to grapple with you, your best option is to mess over his wrist.

    As a lot of peolpe versed in "street" grappling will tell you, and that involves bjj.

    No strikes to the back of the head- that's a really obvious one for taking somedown stricking wise if they go for your legs.

    No eye's - you grab me in the clinch guess where my hand is heading, it's the number one way to create distance on someone who's trying to close the gap.

    No spinal techniques, again such an easy way to counter the takedown.

    No strikes that are intended to cuase an "instant injury", such as kidneys, throat, liver carotid nerves, knee caps all that jazz is a huge part of non sport based MA's, and their are individual strikes for each one, alot of those are banned aswell.

    Now I'm not certain but I remember reading about rules for grappling and striking, e.g. applying a shoulder lock and while your opponent is helpless delivering knee after knee.

    Along with the gracies effectively having their hands in the pockets of the UFC management board resulting in the early days being canned soups.

    Plus ontop of ALL that, look at the grapplers compared to the strikers, the grapplers cross trained while the strikers were arrogant as hell and had no idea what they were getting into, where as the grapplers knew exactly what was going on.


    But this has all been covered before, I stay with my statement, BJJ's boom has been succesful in that it has had it's bom grounded in reality, if ninjutsu had it's boom grounded in reality we'd all be thinking alot more about cross training, about escape, about other aspects of our life aswell like friends, family etc.

    BJJ is not ineffective, far from it, but it has a long way to go before it can have the arrogant attitude that alot BJJers strut around with.

    Take a time out, people are saying that the BJJers have developed a superiority complex, instead of trying to justify it, be a man, self exam :p
     
  9. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

    Lol... Ok, I'll go prove ninjutsu's legitimacy by entering into a competition catered to MMA and BJJ...

    What an idiotic statement.

    I wonder how many Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu students have entered into the UFC...
     
  10. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

    What really ****es me off the most, is that while I said Im tired of hearing about BJJ all the time, I think its good and will help the MA community. Meanwhile 2 other asshats in the thread talk down to me like Im not taller and stronger and in better shape than them. But whatever... Its not like Ive trained in Muay Thai and BJJ or been in any real fights in my life or anything........
     
  11. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award


    hears one from a very quick google search:

    http://www.efnsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=3022.0


    ''
    Ok, so we all know how deadly the streets are... no rules, lava, needles etc. Luckily, there is no lava or needles in my car.

    I had a road rage incident (not my fault, a guy cut me up and all I did was beep my horn) earlier tonight on the way home from training. It turned into a proper fight too.

    Basically, he pulled in front of me, slammed his brakes on and immediately jumped out of his car. I managed to stop about 10 cms from his bumper and had put my hazards on (safety first!!). Sadly, the doors on Micras are huge so I couldn't get out quickly (there was a central reserve on the road) and he got to my car pretty swift.

    He opened my door so I just scooted back on to the passenger seat (over the handbrake!) as he lunged toward me. I grabbed both his wrists, put my left foot on his biceps and said something like "You're going to be in trouble now mate". He said he was going to stab me but I wasn't worried as I had control of both his wrists (I have no idea whether he had a knife on him).

    So, I then locked a triangle on (hard) and he immediately started to panic. I let it off slightly (still choking, not enough to put him out quickly) and he said sorry and that his daughter was in the car. He started saying he had just split up from his wife and was having a really bad day, pleaded for me to let him go. I said I didn't trust him to let him go. He pleaded more so I thought I may as well let him go but do it carefully. We were in the middle of a busy road, so choking him out and leaving a small girl wandering around wouldn't have been a good idea.

    I backed him out of my car, with the triangle still on and still gripping both his wrists. Then I let it off and it was obvious he was feeling the effects of the choke. He scarpered back to his car and drove off... sadly I was more concerned with possible damage to my car door at this time so I didn't get his reg. Oh well.

    That's it.

    A few members of my girlfriend's family are police officers and they said it would be best to report it, just in case someone else did and I ended up looking like I was hiding something. So I rang the police... when they came around to take a statement I had to explain that all the marks (currently have a slightly swollen ear, bruising on my cheek and various graises) on my face weren't from the incident but from training. I didn't think they would know what a triangle choke was so I just said "I choked him with my legs".

    Sport BJJ works as self-defence, fact! ''
     
  12. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Actually its prove your superior attitude towards other peoples unarmed skill by entering a tournament which is catered towards unarmed skills.

    Coming as a long time traditional budo student, people need to get over there own ego. Other people are better then some of our people at doing some things, some of those things we do, some we dont.

    Its unfortunate that BJJ attracts more then its fair share of 'Ive done 3 months I can take any TMA' students, and its a pity that TMA students see how good trained MMA fighters can be, get insecure about it and start talking about tactical street nonsense.

    Decent sports training gives you the ability to realistically avoid, strike, clinch, throw, choke, lock, and reverse others attempt to do the same to you, in a 1 to 1 unarmed (and armed - see dog brothers style sparring) setting. Are these aims so different to your own art?
     
  13. Dhalsim-on

    Dhalsim-on Banned Banned

    I would happily train both types of system and in my experience most ninjutsu/jiu jitsu guys have a healthy respect for modern MMA fighters. We talk about BJJ stuff when we do grappling work all the time, hell I've been taught BJJ in a ninjutsu class before. This massive rift between TMA and modern MMA does not exist in my opinion, maybe it does on the internet but thats another world entirely!

    I do believe many criticisms of BJJ are relevant in that going to ground is not always applicable in fact I'd say all but two fights I've had involved multiple opponents so going to grappling mode was NEVER an option. I think this is something BJJ fans need to address. However I'd never argue about it, as I've always maintained, your training is your own piece of artwork and how you go about it.... is your choice. If you think modern MMA/BJJ is the way for you then go for it! I'd support anyone wanting to tread the martial path. To be fair I think it has always been the case that its the individual that fights, not their art. Just my 2p. :)

    There is a darker side of me that would love to see someone adequately trained in ninjutsu go into a ring and utilize small joint manipulation etc. until they were simply disqualified. The better side of me said that by the time you're that good, proving points to mma fanboys has long since past your concerns.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2009
  14. Connovar

    Connovar Banned Banned

    Again you have never formally studied ninjitsu. Your just a dabbler at best

    The term is dojo not (dojang). Ninjitsu is Japanese so at least get that right

    When you have studied BJJ then you can talk about its weakness and strengths, otherwise you are just wasting everyones time.
     
  15. Connovar

    Connovar Banned Banned


    We would love to see a ninjitsu person come in the ring. But thats the problem. They wont. They talk a tough game but always back away when it comes to show their skills.

    Its like if you were hanging around with a bunch of NASCAR drivers and were always saying how good a race driver you are. Finally after hearing all your bragging they offer you a car and race to drive it in and you back out. You look like a blowhard with that behavior.

    Since you both strike and grapple you could Vale Tudo which has few rules, or MMA, or Submission wrestling, BJJ or even Judo or Kickboxing. They will be restriced to the same rule sets as you. Now its skill vs skill. The folks at our club will participate in competitions in Judo, BJJ, Submission wrestling and MMA. They just adjust to the rules. Why cant you.

    We primarily train in gi's so they have to adjust to nongi for submission wrestling and lose all those nice collar chokes. In Judo they are at a disadvantage on the standup but they still have some takedowns and need to do the groundwork more quickly. In MMA they have to learn to deal with the punching and no gi. If you are truly skilled you can adapt to the environment.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2009
  16. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

    Actually its more like NASCAR drivers laughing and making fun of drag racers.

    You make no sense, and neither does anyone else who thinks that ninjutsu and a ring have anything to do with each other.
     
  17. callsignfuzzy

    callsignfuzzy Is not a number!

    Just sticking my head in. This caught my eye. Got some questions and some corrections. My comments in read.

     
  18. Korpy

    Korpy Whatever Works

    If anyone has made an idiotic statement, it is you. Saying that you can defeat BJJer's with "TEH D3@dLY FINGER LOCKKK!!!!". That right there not only makes you a bit of a LARPer, but pretty delusional as well.

    Like I said, you most likely can't fight, and fantasize of beating large groups of people like a martial arts flick.

    Post less, and train more.
     
  19. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

    Words can't describe how retarded you sound.

    I dont know how to make this any clearer for you:

    I box. Right now. Every day. I spar, in boxing, almost every other day. I train with a former Amateur champ from the Army as well as his brother, almost every day. Before this, I did ninpo consistently for 5 years (and bounced for about 2 years of it). And before this, I did Muay Thai consistently for 3 years. And before that, I did TKD (real sparring, not point sparring) for about 8 years. This isnt including the other myriad of arts Ive dabbled in for a lesser or equal amount of time.

    To think your 18 year old ass can even come close to knowing even a fraction of the things I know about fighting is laughable.
     
  20. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

    Fuzzy:

    Mostly valid points, and since I wasnt the one who brought them up, I dont feel like I need (or want) to argue with them.

    The only thing I have an issue with is the whole groin-doesnt-present-itself thing. Other than in guard, theres a lot of positions where not only is it accessible, but its literally hovering over your hand.

    Not that this really means anything...
     

Share This Page