Shou shu

Discussion in 'Kung Fu' started by Lee Waters, Jul 13, 2006.

  1. Lee Waters

    Lee Waters Valued Member

    Grandmaster Al Novak was part of Shou shu lineage.

    This according to a shou shu Shifu. See Link on first page, it's been updated.
     
  2. Lee Waters

    Lee Waters Valued Member

  3. JaiReef

    JaiReef Valued Member

    no disrespect there Lee Waters

    but almost half your posts here are just Spam posts, but not to get your post count up, just to get your thread to the top.

    i had a rough count, and 13 or so carry the same link, and thats all

    get a life dude, and stop spamming
     
  4. onyomi

    onyomi 差不多先生

    Nobody Cares About Shou Shu!!
     
  5. Lee Waters

    Lee Waters Valued Member

    Beg to differ!

    I have parents of Shou Shu students, and students very intrested in this material. and we have been ask to update as information comes in.
    Simple, if the people who don't care please don't tune in. It's kind of funny that people who don't care take as much time on one side of the coin, of stopping information as we do on getting (traceable) information out.

    Best Wishes.
    L.W.

    http://shoushu.myblogvoice.com/
     
  6. Shifu D.F.S.

    Shifu D.F.S. New Member

    My Style

    Mr. Waters I read your blog with intrest, I knew DaShifu Sr. for allmost 24 years and like most people you know, I'ts funny what others say about them. The things put out here would not for the most part have been said while he was alive. One thing I saw was how could he be taught all the animals if there were only 4 DaShifus in China. A Shou Shu DaShifu is a master of all seven animals, so they can teach any one animal at any time. The studio's are open for you to come in and watch for the most part depending on whats going on, or make an apiontment and the head of the studio will be happy to give you an idea what the style is all about. We show respect for other styles but as any system with thousands of students some will make claims they shouldn't, and some who say they are in our style aren't, so ignor them. Now for ONYOMI you sir or madam have no class, I am in the Sacramento studio and look forward to you coming in and proving my style is CRAP. If you can't come here check the phone book for a studio near you,walk in and tell them you think this is CRAP. Personally I believe you the type of person who starts a fight then leaves others there to fight it. If you were a person of honer you would apologize, otherwise you know were to find me. Everyone else I hope enjoys thier style as much as I do mine.
     
  7. Lee Waters

    Lee Waters Valued Member

    Dear Sir I have been doing research for many years, Most with thousands of files, This is really just common sense, the men we talked with that sent E-mails to your fellow instructors.

    Mr. Tracy & Mr LaBounty have no reason to lie, the only reason Mr laBounty replied, was because of the statement My Hawkins had made in the Kenpo Book the Journey, that he had been Mr. Moore's instructor.

    Did you notice in the interview with Mr Moore he speaks of the ORIGINAL techniques he learned from Da Shifu's, Page 3. The main story of shou shu instructors is there was no techniques in Shou Shu only beast movements, that's why he borrowed from kenpo techniques.

    Why chinese kenpo, and not a Kung Fu style. and how many years did he watch kenpo and the Bok Fu do techniques so that he could copy these techniques into Shou Shu. and why do 90% have the same names as these system.

    The Moore's should be able to prove all of this easy, Business Records that pre date the 70's, Shou Shu practioners that pre date 70's, In the interview he states he's been teaching, 1954 or 1955.

    Call Mr. Tracy and Mr . LaBounty


    http://shoushu.myblogvoice.com/

    Best Wishes.
    L.W.
     
  8. TheDarkJester

    TheDarkJester 90% Sarcasm, 10% Mostly Good Advice.


    Ooooh! This is the first fun thing I've seen allllllll day! And its just begun. I'd love to pick a fight with you Shou Shu boys. I've been itching all day for it.. you guys got a school in Dallas/Fort Worth area? You bring your little minions.. I'll bring my lone self and we'll go. How's that for a call out? Your system is crap. Prove me otherwise and maybe I'll give some credit where its due.. But Shou Shu time and time again has proven to be nothing else than mislabeled material presented by fraudulent 'instructors'.

    I DARE YOU to prove me otherwise. Just be grateful this isn't Bullshido.. :) I have to be nice here.
     
  9. onyomi

    onyomi 差不多先生

    This is really weird; I had heard that Shoushu is basically a form of Kempo, but then I see this video of a Mantis Sabre form apparently "purchased" from Brendan Lai.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ow9_-5AV1w"]YouTube[/ame]

    It is definitely a legit. Mantis form, and I have to admit, not performed too badly. Here's my teacher doing the same form:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQcQARnOESU"]Yanqing Dan-dao - YouTube[/ame]

    So... are they in fact form collectors like Shaolin-do... or what? Very strange.
     
  10. TheDarkJester

    TheDarkJester 90% Sarcasm, 10% Mostly Good Advice.

    Its not a bad saber form.. But Sifu Baofu moves much more fluidly through his waist.

    The Shou Shu guy is powering it thru his arm and shoulder like a FMA fighter would. The shou shu guy moves good, but its gonna take more than 1 decent video to make up for all the crap this style comes with.
     
  11. onyomi

    onyomi 差不多先生

    Yeah, I'm not saying this redeems Shoushu by any means... certainly not with this kind of thing floating around: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1_xWQT7eks&mode=related&search="]YouTube[/ame]

    I was just pointing out that the existence of this form, even if the shenfa isn't great, goes against the whole "Shoushu is some kind of Kenpo" theory. Maybe their barehanded stuff is Kempo and then they collect a bunch of CMA weapons forms from all over the place? My guess is that they're like Shaolin-do: they start out with an obviously fake origin of some kind but then gradually add real forms from other styles they pick up here and there in an attempt to seem more legitimate.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2006
  12. TheDarkJester

    TheDarkJester 90% Sarcasm, 10% Mostly Good Advice.

    Its like watching Shaolin-Do people do bagua.. I wonder how they don't get seasick doing it like that. I'd like to see a Shou Shu spear form now.

    Maybe some actual shou shu being used in a real context instead of the staged videos they put up on Youtube of sparring.
     
  13. Shifu D.F.S.

    Shifu D.F.S. New Member

    Darkjester

    Closest studio to you is Kingman Arizona, I'm in Sacramento. If your in a studio leave the address, I am in Texas rarely to visit family. Will be happy to stop in next time. Or you can do the same here. Now if the rest of you will listen the demos you are seeing are being done for family members and by students who are doing there first "public" demo. The whole object was not to get anyone hurt! And to have fun. As I said before go to a studio near you and see what is really going on. Otherwise its like watching a Jackie Chan movie, do you really think the stuff this ex dancer does would work in a street fight. As a bouncer in a lot of Sacramento's bars I've seen alot of people takeing what looked to be some of the kungfu styles get there butts handed to them by a good street fighter. To many stopped or didn't continue after the first "point"! I saw one guy after doing a nice side kick knocking the guy down turn and It looked like he was heading to his corner! I try to go to as many dojo's as I can, after asking if I may watch I am suprised how much alot of styles are teaching competition fighting and not true street defense. I've seen this on the rise alot in the 10-12 years. I hate to see that in any style as I think it tends to water down any art. I also don't see centerline shifting, moving shoulder and hips together, or just plain not get close enough to do any damage with thier weapons I see this most in styles like Eagle Claw, Wing Chung, and some White Crane styles. Anyone else see this trend?
     
  14. Guizzy

    Guizzy with Arnaud and Eustache

    Nope, I don't, mainly because although there are dubious quality schools in all styles, I judge a style by its best schools rather than its worst.

    's a shame that Shou Shu has never shown any real good practitionners to the community at large.

    And why haven't you yet answered to the simple fact that has been proven here that Shou Shu material is just copied mismatched forms from other KF styles as well as Kenpo? I mean; we've compared the names, seen the videos; now where's the explanation?
     
  15. Shifu D.F.S.

    Shifu D.F.S. New Member

    Thank you!

    Thanks Guizzy, your the reason I came on this site was to talk about your style my style and others. My understanding of all animal based arts were that they originaly came out of the area of Egypt or northern Africa, made there way to China and were exspanded from there. The styles then evolved and split such as Northern & Southern White Crane. Differant strokes for differant folks! So all styles "borrow" things or motion from others that they feal enhance the basis of thier style or can help it but still come from a common base. Like if you saw a great hand strike in Tang Su Do would your style say " Wow, great but we didn't come up with it so we can't adopt it to our style." or would you use it or modify it to fit you? Now you say you Judge a Style on its best studios not worst, good idea ,what studio have you been in or near? What do you base your "not good practitioners" on? I have seen plenty from other styles who suck, but I don't blame the style I blame them! If you have a question about Shou Shu ask me, I have been in this style for 26 years, I'm a third degree in this style which meens I have mastered the Bear, Tiger, and Mongoose. If you have a question I don't have the answer to I can find out and get back to you. The only thing I ask is that since I'm new to this site tell me what your style is so I can ask you questions about it. I have met very few people from others styles that I didn't enjoy talking to, thanks. See you later.
     
  16. onyomi

    onyomi 差不多先生

    Come on... you don't really believe this do you? What possible evidence is there for this? Most of the CMAs we know and practice were developed around late Ming, early Qing or later. A few go back as much as a thousand years, but not much further than the Song. I do see some potential influence from Indian martial arts on the development of Northern Shaolin Longfist and qigong. But Egypt? Africa? You've got to be kidding. Chinese martial arts are basically the inventions of Chinese people of the last millenium. Trying to connect it to the Egyptians (and then the aliens who taught the Egyptians how to make pyramids) is just silly.
     
  17. Shifu D.F.S.

    Shifu D.F.S. New Member

    origins

    Its thought by some that it came out of that area, up and through India to China. As no known style is now known there, its just a theory that can't be proved or disproved. As for aliens they were to busy moving blocks for pyramids to teach any martial arts! My intent was more to show that most styles borrow from others or branch out on there own. Its sort of Darwins theory of evolving, althought seeing some of the people who walk around on the streets I think he may have got it wrong! Someone asked about our weapons like spear or staff. We don't force people to learn any type. Its more of a fun thing to mess with alongside of open hand training. I mess around with the sword but mainly becouse I intend to make them, I'm pretty sure that even where you live your not allowed to walk the streets with a sword on for self-defense. If you can I may move there! Does your style teach a formal weapon style?
     
  18. TheDarkJester

    TheDarkJester 90% Sarcasm, 10% Mostly Good Advice.


    Both of mine do. :) Most serious people that study martial arts learn how to use a weapon of some sort. If you teach weapons, but merely use them as toys.. Its not kung fu. Not by a longshot.

    I won't even go into what FMA's have taught me about weapons combat. Thats another ballpark :)
     
  19. Lee Waters

    Lee Waters Valued Member

    L.W.Theory of Martial Arts and the fall of Man.

    Man fought man, and beast, Man lost hand learned to use elbow, UG

    All races learned by watching and doing, Just like in any trade, you learn what works.

    I love intellectual thought!

    You want to do a little deep thought, study the Dragon, Chinese believe that
    they are descendents of the Dragon," Lung Tik Chuan Ren" The symbol of the dragon represents spiraling DNA- The path into greater enlightenment.

    They say both male and female Dragons came from the skies and mated with humans, which gave us knowledge. Maybe the tree of knowledge was a family tree.

    Genesis 6: That the sons of God saw the daughters of Men were fair: and took them as wives of all which they chose! and now man could only live to the age of 120 years.

    The America's have the same story only with the serpent, That came from the skies on ships and mated with humans, study aztec gods. God of Knowledge!

    Notice: Flying Dragon's and Serpent are words in the bible for Satan.

    Flying Dragon, maybe ment ships, Dragons and Serpents words for fallen angles,



    By the way Mr. Moore says on page three of the interview " Some of the techniques are ORIGINAL TECHNIQUES I learned from other Da shifus, and some were blending of techniques that I felt should be in the system. And the only Da Shifus were in China, also on page 3.

    If any of the story is true Shou Shu had techniques. then he installed the kenpo and bof fu do techniques.

    Love to Study.
    L.W.


    http://shoushu.myblogvoice.com/
     
  20. Guizzy

    Guizzy with Arnaud and Eustache

    The wealth of information you have amassed on Shou Shu is impressive, Lee Waters, but I think it would be better understood if it was rearranged in a more logical way, either with categories or in chronological order of evidence. As of now, it almost reads like the Time Cube website.
     

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