Shooto Brazil: Male v Female

Discussion in 'Fight Discussions' started by Mushroom, Dec 18, 2013.

  1. Zinowor

    Zinowor Moved on

    But this is an MMA fight though. Is he going to ground and pound her when the opportunity presents itself?

    Can he even hit her with the intention of knocking her out?

    In sparring I doubt you'd go so far, so this guy is probably going to lack this kind of experience. Or perhaps the guy is a wife-beater and his wife forced him to take this fight to vent some of his wife-beating frustrations...

    By the way, if this fight actually happens, I hope it's so one-sided that they will never try something like this in MMA again.

    I'm sorry, but I'd be pretty horrified if I saw a man ground and pounding a woman until she was unconscious. It's something I'd prefer not to see in my lifetime.
  2. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    The wife beating comment feels a bit out of place. I spar hard with women, doesn't mean I beat the crap out of my ex when I went home.

    Anyway, that's no different to not sparring in camp with the intention to knock each other out and then going to fight another man. My entire point is the fact its a woman shouldn't even register to him within a couple of weeks of starting training, yet alone by the time he ends up fighting. Not to get all preachy about it but this "a man should never hit a woman" social stigma thing is so full of crap and it certainly has no place in the gym. If you're training light with women because they're women (obviously size and experience are factors to be taken into account) then you're being a crap training partner. Ironically I just see it as such a disrespectful thing to do to someone who is paying money and giving up their time to train the same as the men only to be treated like they're fragile because they happened to be female. Its just as dumb as the guys who start bjj and get really uncomfortable about having to get inside a girls guard or, heaven forbid, grab her gi collar near her chest for whatever reason.

    It being an mma fight doesn't change any of that. His mentality shouldn't be any different whether its standing up, wrestling, passing her guard or ground and pounding because he should be seeing her as nothing more than an opponent like any dude he could of ended up fighting. She stepped up, she trained, she decided she wanted to fight. So long as she's in your weight class then that's all there is to it. You decided you wanted to fight and so did she.
  3. Zinowor

    Zinowor Moved on

    I'm just saying that the social stigma to not hit women not only applies to the public, it might also apply to this guy.

    And the wife-beating comment wasn't a comment, it was a joke. I realize people think I'm no good with women, but surely you couldn't seriously think I meant that? :eek:

    And here you are, talking about sparring and training again. Mate, do you even know with what kind of mentality a fighter goes into the ring? It's usually not the most social state of mind...

    Doing the same when you know you're fighting a woman in the ring? Yeah, not so easy.

    Btw, what happens if this guy takes this fight very seriously and does everything in his power to win the fight. What happens if this guy beats the living crap out of her? Perhaps he wants to send a message or maybe he is angry that a woman would want to fight him. If that happens I'd be pretty upset with the people who made this fight happen, because you can't blame the guy for doing what he's "technically" supposed to.

    That's why I hope this guy pulls off the most boring most instant armbar and be done with it.
  4. Wildlings

    Wildlings Baguette Jouster

    You know, you don't really seem to have any argument apart from "I don't want to see women being punched in a ring". Which technically isn't even an argument.
  5. Zinowor

    Zinowor Moved on

    Almost correct. Not just punched, ground and pounded.

    I don't want to see women getting ground and pounded by men until they lose consciousness.

    To be honest, I already find that hard to watch when it's men doing it to other men. Men doing that to women...It sounds like some kind of a bad joke to allow that to happen.
  6. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    And my ranting aside what I'm saying is that most gyms I know of have women who train regularly alongside the men. The guy most likely grew up with that stigma but I would expect him to have trained with women enough to not be bothered by it. I wouldn't expect it to apply to him now because he should of got over it already.

    I dunno, I've read a lot of dumb stuff on the net. Curse of liking youtube videos :p But sorry for not seeing it was a joke :)

    Having never fought mma, no. I can only go off my experience competing in bjj and k1 which I appreciate are different beasts but in both, and in general, I've never had the fact I'm across from a woman enter my mind. When I first started training ever in bjj I did, I was the guy who felt a bit weird rolling with girls, but then I got a severe bollocking from some lovely ladies on here, thought it over, talked to the actual women I train with, and then started treating women like equal training partners. I've seen plenty of other guys come into the gym since with the same problems and they've all got over it. I have no reason to believe it would be different because it happens to be mma.

    I don't get your point about it not being social? Surely then he should give even less thought to a social stigma? If you mean because of how they go in trying to hurt each other then I've already given my views on that.

    Why? My entire point has been that the social conditioning not to hit women should not apply to someone who is fighting because by the time I expect someone to be fighting they should of been training long enough to have trained with women to the extent that that conditioning doesn't apply to them anymore.

    On top of that for this fight to happen the guy had to have agreed to it, and agreed to it knowing this would be the reaction, so presumably he doesn't give much thought to it. I'm sure if he didn't think he could fight properly against a girl he wouldn't of taken the fight.

    I expect there'd be a massive uproar about it and everyone would whine about how its barbaric and disgusting. Not much different to when mma first started, or when the news stories started to spread about kids training and competing, or when WMMA in general became more mainstream and Invicta blew up or women joined the UFC. If the show managed to survive the initial outcry and kept doing it then eventually it'd become normal and people would stop caring about it so much. Same as everything when there's some moral social problem.
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2013
  7. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    *grabs popcorn*
  8. Zinowor

    Zinowor Moved on

    I agree with a lot of what you said, but shouldn't we be taking the athletes health into account here?

    If the differences are shown to be too big, should we really allow women to fight men in mma? Especially mma.
  9. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Like I said before mate I don't see the differences as being any worse than some of the match ups among men in mma. The only requirement is they make the same weight 24 hours before a fight and that leaves a shedload of variables. The fact that men naturally have more muscle or naturally can hit harder isn't a problem to me. Getting in the cage with someone who is stronger or who hits harder is something everyone has to face at some point. Is it really any worse than something like Kenny Florian fighting at 135 or instance?

    And I could well be wrong. But I'd rather they did these fights, and I do mean fights plural, and then see what's up rather than write it off from the start and in no small part just because of some silly social construct.

    edit: I forgot to add that I'm also a very big believer in that people should be able to do what they want when the only person effected is them. No one is forcing these two into a fight and no one is going to suddenly force women to fight men. If two adults decide they want to fight each other then I don't think anyone has any right to stop them.
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2013
  10. Zinowor

    Zinowor Moved on

    I don't know, it just sounds like a really bad idea to me.

    I agree with your edit portion btw. However, when this fight gets shown on tv and the internet, it won't just affect them.

    I'll be watching this fight if I can. Even though I'm against this fight, I'm dead curious to how it'll play out.
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2013
  11. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I can respect that and as much as I dislike the male/female hitting thingy I do appreciate how its a big deal to a lot of people. Its hard for me to accept it as completely valid though when it always seems the justification for being against it is "well I don't like it" and there's not really a reason for it. It seems weird for so many people to go with this social stigma but not be able to justify it. I'm very fussy about making sure I can justify the things I think :p

    I will never learn the effect/affect difference :(

    But this fight does really just affect them. When I say let people do what they want unless it effects others I mean unless it actually hurts them. People watching and getting disgusted or getting up on their moral horse about it isn't being effected in any meaningful way by it.

    The only problem I can really see this causing is it making the news and people who don't normally watch mma using it to discredit the whole sport, but even that is pretty minor in the long term considering those people don't have any impact on it beyond getting some tabloid space and some news airing for a couple days if they're lucky.
  12. Zinowor

    Zinowor Moved on

    Well, if there was ever a time to allow men and women fighting each other in an mma match, now is probably the time. Honestly, if it goes well and it's not as bad as I'm picturing it to be (imagining 10 hour video mockeries of men ground pounding on women popping up on youtube everywhere(this is me joking)) then it would really help to invalidate this stigma about men not hitting women. And/or women being able to fight evenly with men.

    edit: i dont really know the difference in application between affect and effect either, i just go with my gut and hope for the best...
  13. Happy Feet Cotton Tail

    Happy Feet Cotton Tail Valued Member

    Just a thought.

    Aren't people socially conditioned not to hit people in general?

    I mean I get the "don't hit women thing", but I just don't see it really being that prevalent these days because we generally also don't hit men. If anything I might expect the guy to fight harder seeing as MMA is a very macho sport and I can see how a fighter with some insecurity wouldn't want to be seen losing to a girl.
  14. Zinowor

    Zinowor Moved on

    We're talking about how it's socially accepted that in some situations it's morally okay to punch another man in the face, while with women it's never morally okay to punch a woman in the face.

    It's a stigma I used to suffer from too. Until I took a few months off for some therapeutical fist fights with women. Now I wake up in the morning and I already feel like punching a woman in the face. It's great!
  15. righty

    righty Valued Member

Share This Page