Shocking Training Methods In Malaysian Silat

Discussion in 'Silat' started by Viking, Jun 21, 2006.

  1. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    Salam hormat, Kakang Mas Tristan,
    Sorry for confusing you when I say my teacher is Roman Catholic but learning silat has brought me closer to Islam. That is the truth. My gerak badan is taught as an ilmu gerak badan. Religion and spirituality is up to the student, our teacher teaches silat, gerak badan.

    Hormat kembali Mas Bram :)
    I think we are at the same pace then :) This is exactly what I'm trying to say.
    I applauded your teacher for doing that. That's what I'm believe and that's the different between the teacher forcing students to learn Islam, spirituality and Ilmu gerak badan.

    However in my experience of doing this gerak badan and olah nafas I found that I became brought closer and closer to Islam particularly
    in the gerak-badan parts of Islam: shalat (fardu and sunnah) which suddenly began to open oceans of meaning for me. Meanings which I had no experience of prior to intensively practising the gerak badan taught to me. In daily life silat makes it easy to smile and make other people happy because I feel confident and happy in my body.

    I agree again, that's two on the row here :)
    The way of Silat is spiritual. Spirituality can enhance your religous believe. But spirituality is not a specific religion. I think if we should separate our religious believe while practice, so we are not offending others who happen to be a non muslim students.

    Mas Tristan, you remember surviving an ambush alone and you say it is luck? Well I would say that you have prayers and tenaga dalam that protect you. The proof? You survived an ambush when all your comrades perished!

    Yes or No, it depends...
    In general scheeme of things, I was a lucky *******!
    Spiritualy, my Higher Power is not ready to meet me. Or he was protecting me.
    Religously: Its not my time, God have given me another a chance to ammend my self, or God must have a reason to keep me alive.
    The truth was, I do not remember if I was praying nor thinking about God during that faithfull day.
    Thanks Bram,
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2006
  2. Wali

    Wali Valued Member

    Astan Sunan Kalijaga was indeed a high level silat master....
  3. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    I guess I must have picked it up from you then :) and I have no problem in accepting it, in those times it was common to study alchemy even in the west it was popular. Sir Isaac Newton is well known as a Scientist but few know that he spent more time studying alchemy then what we now call Science.
  4. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    I couldn’t find any information confirming that Sunan Kalijaga was a Silat practitioner but its interesting that he was of royal Indian Majapahit lineage and that the spiritual teachings given to him were of Indian origin.

    “According to legend Sunan Kalijaga was the offspring of royalty from Indic Majapahit……..His conversion by Sunan Bonan, involved spiritual asceticism of an Indic sort and thus suggested completion rather than denial of the qualities of spirituality prioritized already in earlier Indic Java.” The Inner Islamization of Java by Paul Stange
  5. Kiai Carita

    Kiai Carita Banned Banned

    Sunan Kalijaga

    Salam hormat everyone,

    Wali, I think you are refering to a perguruan called Asta Sunan Kalijaga and Asta is high Sundanese / Jawanese for hand. So the school where Steve studied under pak Makmur (?) is meant to have lineage to Sunan Kalijaga.

    Sunan Kalijaga in his youth was Raden Mas Said, a Prince from the port-kingdom of Tuban which was part of Majapahit. In his youth he was like Robin Hood, robbing the rich to give to the poor. One day he attempted to rob Sunan Bonang who was walking in the jungle path with a bejeweled walking stick. RM Said wanted the gold on the stick but instead, Sunan Bonang offered him the power to transform a whole aren (arena pinnata -sugar palm) tree into gold. RM Said asked to become a student and Sunan Bonang told him to sit and wait, by a river (kali).

    Over the years moss grew over RM Said and people began to call him Kalijaga (kali - river, jaga - guard) ... Years later Sunan Bonang remembered him and came to check him out. Bonang gave RM Said a Qur'an and asked him to read it. However RM Said could not read Arabic. Instead he used his powers to make Sunan Bonang's Qur'an read loudly itself (those days there were no audio books yet) . Bonang then said that Kalijaga had surpassed his ilmu. Sunan Kalijaga went on to be the most beloved Wali in Jawa.

    Although he was undoubtedly a martial artist he is more remembered by his poems and songs which are still sung to this day. He also designed several dhapur of keris, like the 13 luk Sengkelat. He made wayang kulit suitable for large audiences and also designed the pendopo as the front of the Jawa home.

    Kalijaga's times were interesting times in Jawa. Admiral Cheng Ho's armada was sailing the globe with a Jawa jurnalist and Chinese traders built a town called Lao Sam (Lasem) near Tuban. This was a time when Chinese influence was warmly welcomed and eagerly sought for in Jawa. The king in Islamic kingdom Demak, Raden Patah was of Chinese descent and his name when young was Jin Bun. Sunan Bon Ang was Chinese as well, as were probably many other Wali.

    These were the times when people in Jawa began to look to the Islamic world rather than the Hindu world. It might be from these timies that you get Persian wrestling and stuff like it brought into silat. Just my imaginings.

    Warm salaams to all,
  6. Jawara

    Jawara New Member

    Salaam Hormat,

    Pak Kiai Carita, could you please tell us more about Haji Mangipin? Also Mas Tristan please tell us something about your Cimande training if you will.

    Terima Kasih,
  7. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    Salam Jawara,
    I'm sorry to disappointed you, I'm learning silat from the Old Magazine.
  8. Wali

    Wali Valued Member

    I've heard the Old Magazine mentioned several times now.

    What exactly is it?
  9. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    What it meants is that my silat styles is insignificant, is generic or not asli, probably not even for the warriors mind, just an old family system. :)
    Whom I studied with? My guru is not well known and his guru is not well known. I'm the only one teach this kind of generic silat to the outsider. Limited participants by all means :) I only have 5 students in Silat in the past 32 years and I'm not looking for a new student either.
    Therefore, I'm not going to jump in very common practice in the West and recently in Asia by promoting the "deadliest martial arts system" or something like that :). I still believe with my motto. "In martial arts is not how much you do know, but how much you can do with what you did know." Regardless where you come from, whom you study with and what system martial arts you studied. Bottom lines is coming back at you, can you do it and perform it? Are you trully represent your teacher or your teacher system? Remember student is reflection of his/her teacher.
    I'm a member and founder of Padi Tribe if that significant enough :)
    Pendekar Tidak Berarti.
  10. Wali

    Wali Valued Member

    OK! I thought it was some sort of 70's silat magazine!!!! Literally!
  11. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    I thought the same, I had images of Tristan blowing the dust of his old magazines and eagerly digesting their content :D
  12. Wali

    Wali Valued Member

    Are we still talking silat? :p
  13. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    Haha...Yes I was talking about Silat magazines :D
  14. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    LOL, figuratively speaking, it was 1969 silat magazine, page 3 and still in paragraph one. :)
  15. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    It was an angle dust mind you :)
  16. Jawara

    Jawara New Member

    Salaam Hormat,

    Actually Mas Tristan, I too am a card carrying member of the Padi Tribe! That is why I asked you the question about Cimande. I know that when a particular style is mentioned all of the Empty-Barrels-That-Make-Loud-Noises will jump to say how great and profound they are, maybe that they are even better than Indonesians (after all what could an Indonesian possibly know about Silat!?!?!?) :bang:

    Guess I'll have to wait for Pak Kiai to tell us about Haji Mangipin or until my next foray to Sunda land.

  17. Wali

    Wali Valued Member

    Hi Jawara,

    This statement sounds a little arrogant, and assumes that Indonesians HAVE to be the best silat players. This is not always necessarily the case.
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2006
  18. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    Salam Wali,
    I don't think Jawara is making an arrogant statement. Remember he is the carrying card member of the Padi Tribe :) I don't even know the real name Jawara but I believe what he said, that's good enough for me :)
    The Padi Tribe will always discourage any of our members to be arrogant and boister especially in silat. We all very beginer in Silat.
    We KNOW silat it doesn't means We are the BEST in silat...not for the long shot!:)
    In August I have 10 instructors representing 10 different style of Indonesian Silat systems and 7 instructors from Aikido, Karate, Iaijutsu, Muaythai, TKD, Taichi, Garote will gather in my backyards. We are just get together in the in gentle and friendly atmosphere and having a ball, friendly exchange and drinks....All of the Instructors have been 30-52 years in the martial arts, so they are not the wannabe by any means :)
    So if you and Steve Benitez happen to be in the neigbohood, please feel free to drop by....:)
    Warm regards,
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2006
  19. Wali

    Wali Valued Member

    Hey Tristan,

    I think it was slightly (most probably unintentionaly), but different strokes for different folks, as they say! :)

    I don't see how a nationality in anything, will make a person better at any particular activity. The English invented football, yet they have to win anything significant since 1966 (and boy DO THEY LIKE TO REMIND US!!! :p ), etc...

    I see it the way I have seen you describe it in other posts, it is the individual, rather than the style, and in this case, the nationality.

    During several trips to Indonesia, I have seen a change whereby the Indonesians are turning their back on traditional silat, and want to be more western. Likewise, people in the West, wanna be more like the people in the East, etc,etc...

    This is why Oriental musicians like Vanessa Mae lead the way in Violin music, putting most of the European counterparts to shame.

    That was my point. If we are talking sheer numbers, then yes, as there are millions of Indonesians doing the art, but in terms of skill level, it is really down to the individual.

    My 2 cents!

  20. Jawara

    Jawara New Member

    Salaam to All,

    Sorry if you were rubbed the wrong way by my post Mas Wali. I suppose it was a bit flip. It appears theres one group in particular that seems to think they figured out Cimande "better" than the Sundanese and its laughable to me :D I have a lot of respect for Steve Benitez and his school, by the way.

    Again I tip my songkok to Mas Tristan and I wish you the best of luck for your gathering next month. When I got into the martial arts in the 1970's the atmosphere was quite different than now. Everyone seemed to have respect for one another and if you came across a guy who did a different art, than you received him with interest, friendship and brotherhood. Nowadays since the ultimate fighting challenges its all about 'my style is BETTER than yours'. so pathetic.

    Peace Brothers,

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