Salaams mas Tristan As for my goals - i do not think I am confused about the meaning of the term , I have 1 goal and 1 goal only , it is to be an obedient servant to my Lord Almighty. Alhamdullilah!! Thank God all mighty. That is a huge goal to achieve. Another modren Gandhi or Mother Teresa? But Good luck and God Bless. Not quite my brother , but as you said we must formalize our goal and maintain it with firm intention - why settle for second best - we know about the existence of AwliyaAllah - why not try to keep their company.? Why not intend to join them ? How does this relate to Silat ? Please do tell Well , to be a servant of your lord , you must first stop being a servant of your ego and its desires. I agree wholeheartly, but tell me who does not have an ego? This is a bad habit or character defects, everyone have it. To keep your ego at bay, you must learn what an ego is? yes quite , everyone has an ego - we must train it to be our servant , not live to serve its desires and wants - the negative characteristics of the ego are well documented by the scholars of the science of the heart Anger pride arrogance envy hatred greed laziness stinginess I could go on for a while here... Once we have inentified our predominant bad characteristics through self observation and reflection , we must work to rid ourselves of their domination. This can only be done these days under the supervision of a master. .We start with the body , silat training combats laziness. we continue with the emotions and silat training combats fear , anger and aggression. I agree to disagree here. Silat training is gerak badan and laziness is behavior or bad habit. What is lazines anyway? Can you elaborate on this? Laziness is the egos reluctance to engage in life - it is the desire of material energy to sink to the lowest point of inertia. Combat fear? Everyone fear of something, courarge can overcome the fear, by just learning silat, its not a guarrany to combat fear, it help but not guarranty. Help is ok - its what we need[ /COLOR] As far as Anger? Have you ever read or go to anger management seminar? This is nothing to do with silat though, just a professional psychologist teaching us how to handle our anger. A good seminar I may say. anger is the lowest level of the ego, we must swallow it down . Being smacked around , shouted out , publicly humiliated - all tricks of the master to bring out your anger , if you can keep your cool you start to build an anger restrainer - We continue with the mind and silat training combats prejudice, tunnel vision - the mind abiding in things . Sound very interesting..If I may ask, do your master have a student that practice other religion? Christian, Buddha or Jewish? If not why not? Why he only teach to Muslim student? Is that prejudice toward other religion? Or belief that only muslim students deserve to learn silat? Is that a tunnel vision? Remember we agree that we should love everyone? Regardless race,nationality, and belief? I am afraid you are jumping to conclusions based on your own prejudice here- My master not only has non muslim students, but more - he doesnt care about their belief , race , age or any other label we care to put . what he cares about is - do you really want to learn ? Are you willing to DO , not just to listen but to PRACTISE. I respect your belief. If your belief is true then please teach the people in the Middle East ie. like Iraq, Israel, Lebanon, Aghanistan a good silat. To STOP this senseless killing. Sure - Please stop the killing We have different goal for different things, there is no such things is one goal and one goal only. Then we must agree to disaree Mas, for me there is only one real goal , and until we have acheved that , all else is ...forgetfullness Adios sulaiman
I'm not a very religious person, but I can't justify killing innocent human being because they are different. Killing them to avenge the killing of their comrades, bombs the cities for the reason of securiy. Invade soverign country for what ever reason. Killing is killing, period. If we are all believe that all religion teaching to love one another then what was going on is not love but hate. Hate is a sin. How could you justify Bali bombing for example? Salaams again No muslim can justify religiously the killing you mentioned above . this killing is a result of our obedience to our lower ego , and its negative characteristics- I kill you because my pride and anger tells me I have more right to live than you . I kill you because my love of the world wants for myself the things you have This is not religion. This is the result of our serving our ego. The Prophets came to show us the way to free ourselves from this and certain of the Awliya Allah continue with this purpose The purpose of religion is to combat these charateristics within ourselves , only when our own hearts are at peace will we manifest peace in the world. Adios
I'll be glad to accept the magic, animal spirits, bone-pointing and all the rest. No problem. The only catch is you're going to have to prove it. And since you're making extraordinary claims the proof will have to be really extraordinary. "My holy book says" or "My guru says" or "You're a skeptic so it won't work" are so lame as to be actively insulting to the audience. If you want to convince intelligent people of the reality you need to have real evidence that can survive the death of 1000 cuts of Occam's Razor. Again, millions of dollars (which you could give to the poor or tsunami relief) await if you can make it work unequivocally under controlled conditions in the presence of James Randi and a mutually chosen board of disinterested judges.
Salam All, Pekir thank you for taking the time to explain your position, I do appreciated. I can share your feeling too. I'm not a Ducth-Indo. But I was born and grew up in Jakarta, Indonesia till I'm 18 years old and I lived in the USA for over 38 years. So I know how you felt is certain things. Todd, well spoken! To all pesilats... This is my honest opinion, I'm not going to pull punches here Silat is ilmu gerak badan meaning the art of body movements PERIOD! Religion is a religion, you can slice it dice it, is still a religion, belief, and faith. Many people mixed the two things together. I highly respected their goal, but it is almost impossible task to do. Because talking, planning and preaching are an easy tasks but to do it? You can answer that yourself. Ilmu gerak badan, in order to perform the require technique correctly, you must concentrate to the moves, your mind must be focus to your body, techniques (speed, timing, power, agility and versetality) and awareness. Yes prior to start, you think and pray to God or say: Bismillah Hirahman Hirahim or in Christian/Yaweh/Budda's prayers, but then you have to act, it is almost impossible to think about God and praying while performing. You can thank sGod after, Sukur Alhamdulilah! But while performing we must concentrate and focus to the the art of body movements. This what I'm talking about separation between Silat and Religion. Some attempting to put the goal together, meaning if you learn silat you will become a good person and eventually went to Heaven. They are try to potrait that a true silat players are servant of God, therefore they would be guarranty to go to Heaven. I'm agree this is a simple way to talk about and the easy way to plan. The problem are, many a good silat players not following their religious belief to the "T" Sulaiman telling us why he learning silat, he preach us what is silat. Be honest my friends, how many good silat players do you know that follow that tasks to the fullest? On the Religous duty, how many of us or your teacher do this? Since Mas Bram, Mas Krisno, and Mas Sulaiman brought this, I'm going to make an examples in Islamic way. But any of you who are not Islam, asks the same questions 1. Did you or your teacher prays 5 or times more a day? 2. Have you or teacher do a good DEEDS today, this week, this month, this year? For examples: a. Donated money to the Mosques/Churchs/Temples, etc. b. Donated money to the poor or needies? c. Donated your times to clean the Masjid/Churches/Temples, etc. d. Volunteer your times for your religious duty, non-profit organizations etc. e. Helping your parents/brothers and sisters financially, physically, and mentally? 3. For the Muslims, instead buying a new car or travell, use the money to go to Haj? 4. Helping your neighbours 5. Promote equalities, sex/gender/age/nationality in the work place and in general. 6. Promote Peace and Harmony. I think this is the basic principles to be a good religous person. Now, if you answer truthfully that you and your teacher did all the above, then, only then I believe what you all saying about Silat and Religion. Other than that? I call it: a Crocodile mouth with cannary ass. Talk is cheap. You all can do the above and NOT learning silat either. So with that I end my opinion that to learn silat you must define your goal in silat. In Religion, if your goal is going to Heaven, then start do what your religion asked you to do, start NOW!!!!! With the devastations caused by Tsunamis and Earthquakes in Indonesia. I can only assumed that all silat schools in Indonesia. Their teacher would ask donations and ask their students to volunteer their time for their muslim brothers and sisters, and the needy, right? I would think so, because they are preaching to be a good human being through silat, right? No punt intended just telling like it is. No excuses! Again talk is cheap! Tristan
Mungkin salah paham Mas Tris? (Misunderstanding?) I can only speak for myself ... I am not a follower of any religious dogma. Am I Hindu, Taoist, Christian, Buddhist or Muslim? I am none of those in a dogma religious sense, but I akcnowledge the spiritual self in ALL of those! Who is my sangha, who is my ummat? It is the whole world around me ... not only the people in mesjid, stupa or in church. I am spiritual mystic in MYSELF "Manunggalling kawula Gusti" . I am not trying to make anyone same as me! So what I mean about the spiritual element in movement or gerak badan is that if essence is spirituality, it is not separated from anything you do. I don't have to say Bismillah-hirahmani-rahim, Hum-mane-padme-hum or the Lords Prayer (or I can choose to say it), but it make no difference, because whatever I do I already spiritual, and when I get distracted by nafs/my weaknesses I go off rails sometimes. Spiritualism is always a personal thing. It is not something that must be put on to others. Mas Tristan already show that you do the right thing by your beliefs and definitions. That means to me that YOU are a spiritual person. We each have our ways. When you define your way, you make a difference between Gerak Badan and Spirituality ... that is OK and it is the way you define. I respect that 100%. What guides people in life to make goals and to achieve them? What guides a person's sense of right and of wrong? It is the individual belief system. It isn NOT necessarily the agama (religion) that the person says they have. In my understanding Agama (religion) and the sense of the spiritual (kebatinan) are not necessarily the same things, even if they coincide sometimes. Why do Christians, Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus and Muslims kill? For many reasons, but none of them because of MY sense of spirituality ... every human has problems with their nafsu ... it is not because of spirituality, but because of a lack of it maybe . The spiritual is in the smile of a child, in the song of a bird, in the sway of the tree, the wisdom of maturity, the colour of sunset, the splatter of rain, the kalepasan when doing gerak-badan ... and the light side always has the dark side too. I already know what heaven can be like, and I already know what hell can be like ... is it the same as the poetic descriptions in religious holy books? Sometimes and usually not ... hehe, but to read spirituality you don't open a book, you read nature, life all around us, that is the 'book'. What is the meaning of 'good deeds' and praying 5 times a day and going into a building that cost millions of dollars/rupiah to pray? As you say, the money could be better spent ... praying is the internal discourse of ones own spirituality and can happen anywhere ... even on the toilet! And THAT is why spiritual self is always present because being spiritual attaches to the art of being in the moment ... even when doing Gerak Badan, Salam Krisno
Salam Mas Krisno, Thank you for the priceless information, my appology for putting you in the same category and belief as Sulaiman. I was not against Spirituality or against religion. I was just clarifiying where I'm stand on this issue. I think its about time we close this discussion, don't you think My worthless opinon, Tristan
Rahayu Mas Tristan and everyone, Priceless information from Moi? I think that the Silat forum has a lot of thoughtful and insightful personalities. I appreciate the discussion present on this forum, and I'm grateful for everyone's input. It's very healthy I think, and the nature of silat is so broad! Mas Suleiman (if I'm not mistaken) practices ilmu tassawuf. I have a strong attraction to tassawuf ... but I hesitate to categorise, as Mas Suleiman is a capable communicator himself . As for Bram, my little brother is an enigma even to me :Alien: . He still manages to teach me about life things that matter and I wouldn't swap him for quids ... hehe. Salam Krisno
Answers for Kakangmas Tristan Assalamualaekum, Kakangmas Tristan, 1.My teacher is Roman Catholic and follows the Chinese tradition of ancestor-shrine keeping, so he doesn'r shalat 5 times a day. I am meant to do that and unfortunately there are many holes in my shalat. 2.Yes my teacher does much good work in the community, as a teacher and as a healer not demanding payment. I do volunteer work for my community all the time. 3. I can't afford to go on the Hajj yet but want to go one day. I have no car I do not drive I walk, cycle, or use public transport. To tell you the truth the silat I learn is not based on Islam, it is based on Chinese philosophy. However, practising it brought me closer to Islam. Warm salaams to all, Bram.
To tell you the truth the silat I learn is not based on Islam, it is based on Chinese philosophy. However, practising it brought me closer to Islam. Warm salaams to all, Bram Salam Mas Bram, Thank you for your honest response We are all human after all. Spirituality is relationship with the Maker, Acknowledgement of a High Power. Spirituality is NOT a religion. You can be a highly spiritual but not a religious. At the same token, you can be a religious person but not a spiritual. The two can be hand in hand, though. Most of us would love to be a religous and spiritual person. Now attempting to put ilmu gerak badan into the two concepts can be a very confusing and rather difficult. You can be a spiritual to learn silat by thanking and acknowledge God for giving you the gift to perform silat. It can be hairy when you are doing a techniques to kill in the name of Allah/God/Buddha, though. Lets stay back for a second. Silat is a martial arts, so when somebody asked you, what is your objective learning martial arts. If one answer is to learn how to defend myself or to learn the art of body movements, IMHO,that's the right answer. But when one answer the question by inserting the word of God/Allah? Is he/she may forgot that their objective of silat technique is to hurt or kill someone in the name of self-defense? But yet he/she preached about God and Love. My worthless opinon, Tristan
Salaams all,especially Mas tristan To all pesilats... This is my honest opinion, I'm not going to pull punches here Silat is ilmu gerak badan meaning the art of body movements PERIOD! Ok my brother, but what is a body - what is the difference between an Alive and a Dead one? I do not believe it is possible to seperate the soul and body until death, so my silat encompasses both aspects. Religion is a religion, you can slice it dice it, is still a religion, belief, and faith. Many people mixed the two things together. I highly respected their goal, but it is almost impossible task to do. But not impossible right .. Because talking, planning and preaching are an easy tasks but to do it? You can answer that yourself. Ilmu gerak badan, in order to perform the require technique correctly, you must concentrate to the moves, your mind must be focus to your body, Actually i find that focusing the mind on the body kills the movement. We try to not stop the mind in one place, that way it can be where it is needed. techniques (speed, timing, power, agility and versetality) and awareness. Yes prior to start, you think and pray to God or say: Bismillah Hirahman Hirahim or in Christian/Yaweh/Budda's prayers, but then you have to act, it is almost impossible to think about God and praying while performing. No its not -you can train yourself to always have the Name of Allah Almighty in your heart and on your tongue , You can thank sGod after, Sukur Alhamdulilah! But while performing we must concentrate and focus to the the art of body movements. This what I'm talking about separation between Silat and Religion. Some attempting to put the goal together, meaning if you learn silat you will become a good person and eventually went to Heaven. They are try to potrait that a true silat players are servant of God, therefore they would be guarranty to go to Heaven. I'm agree this is a simple way to talk about and the easy way to plan. The problem are, many a good silat players not following their religious belief to the "T" Sulaiman telling us why he learning silat, he preach us what is silat. Be honest my friends, how many good silat players do you know that follow that tasks to the fullest? I state my knowledge from my practise-there is only one person here preaching to be authority on what is silat. On the Religous duty, how many of us or your teacher do this? Since Mas Bram, Mas Krisno, and Mas Sulaiman brought this, I'm going to make an examples in Islamic way. But any of you who are not Islam, asks the same questions I do not like to answer this question as it develops pride , but from the questions this indicates very basic level of practise. You talk only of Fard -obligatory for everyone, we try to follow sunnah,you draw near your Lord through voluntary worship 1. Did you or your teacher prays 5 or times more a day? T 2. Have you or teacher do a good DEEDS today, this week, this month, this year? For examples: a. Donated money to the Mosques/Churchs/Temples, etc. b. Donated money to the poor or needies? c. Donated your times to clean the Masjid/Churches/Temples, etc. d. Volunteer your times for your religious duty, non-profit organizations etc. e. Helping your parents/brothers and sisters financially, physically, and mentally? 3. For the Muslims, instead buying a new car or travell, use the money to go to Haj? 4. Helping your neighbours 5. Promote equalities, sex/gender/age/nationality in the work place and in general. 6. Promote Peace and Harmony. I think this is the basic principles to be a good religous person. Now, if you answer truthfully that you and your teacher did all the above, then, only then I believe what you all saying about Silat and Religion. Other than that? I call it: a Crocodile mouth with cannary ass. Talk is cheap. Ironic words considering it is YOU , Mas Tristan who have had most to say on this topic,whereas Silat Lincah, whose Master and Silat you publicly disrespected have not responded. Likewise, this is a discussion forum, its currency is words, what else do you expect. Lastly, you are attempting to undermine my expression with derogatory comments, but I do not mind. But believe me my talk is not cheap -each word has been bought at a high price I think we have both made our opinions clear. Wasalaam sulaiman
Why ? Warm salaams to everyone, Very well said brother Sulaiman. Why do Muslims like silat and feel that it is their own? Other than the complete identification of the Malays with Islam, I have heard a Tradition which says that our Prophet (s.a.w) recomended silat, swimming, horse-riding, and archery as part of a child's and youth's education. Because of this many a Muslim feels that learning and teaching silat is part of his religious expression in daily life and because of this silat flourishes in the madrasahs all over the Malay world. In the eyes of the religious thus silat becomes a vehicle rather than a goal. Silat is a knowledge, and the goal when learning a knowledge should be to master the knowledge. But there is a deeper question, which is WHY do you even want to master that knowledge? There are many different ilmu out there, why choose silat? I choose silat as a gerak badan because I love it. I am much more supple now compared to when I was 18. Silat makes me calm inside, confident, I feel part of the earth and the sky. Silat is a treasure that I can keep digging into all my life. Silat awakens and sharpens my senses and breathing makes my remembrance of Allah more often, more concentrated. Silat is my culture and having cultural wealth is important to people from the 'Third World' living in the Global Village where money talks and people are out there taking respected names in silat as their own and misrepresenting silat to the international audience. These people are shaming our ancestors and our culture of gerak badan, regressing the higly sophisticated kebatinan to the level of cheap black-magick klenik perdukunan. Why post in silat internet forums? Because some of these schools ARE active on the web claiming knowledge about things like magick and kebatinan and auspicious dates like Jum'at Kliwon, some have registered a Batavia style as a registered trademark, and some have claimed to be the Head Guru of a school that still exists in Jakarta, whose Grand Master, Ayah Zakaria just flew back to Jakarta from London last week! I believe that internet forums are exactly the right place to debate things that are expressed in words like the spirituality of Cimande, for instance. There are people out there claiming to teach Cimande and the spirituality connected to it but actually they know not what they speak about says Haji Mangipin who gets really upset whenever he sees a new page on the website I am refering to. Just a note of warning don't believe everything you read rather take a good look and study for your-self. Warm salaams to all, Bram.
Warm salaams to everyone, I have heard a Tradition which says that our Prophet (s.a.w) recomended silat, swimming, horse-riding, and archery as part of a child's and youth's education. That a very interesting Mas Bram, I have not heard that before. Are you saying Silat as a martial arts in general or Silat specifically Malay and Indonesian origin? FYI. Many moons ago Spartan children are send to the booth camp to learn how to be a warrior. A good book on this is "Gates of Fire" An Epic novel of the battle of thermopylae. Is this qualified as child's and youth's education? Because of this many a Muslim feels that learning and teaching silat is part of his religious expression in daily life and because of this silat flourishes in the madrasahs all over the Malay world. My two teachers are muslim and have been to Haj several times. I'm a muslim and try my hardness to be one. I still have alot of holes in my daily shalats. Is this just recently? When I grew up in Indonesia and went to madrasah, no one of my religious teacher mentioned about silat. We studied Quran, hadists, Arabic language, etc. NO MENTION ABOUT SILAT AT ALL. Mas Bram, you had said your silat teacher is a Catholic, how could he taught you an Islamic religion? I am confused here. In the eyes of the religious thus silat becomes a vehicle rather than a goal. I hope that is your opinion, that's not my opinion and my silat teachers opinons. To us, silat is a gerak badan. Silat can enhance your spirituality, it can enhance your religous belief. But silat is not Islam. Silat is a knowledge, and the goal when learning a knowledge should be to master the knowledge. But there is a deeper question, which is WHY do you even want to master that knowledge? There are many different ilmu out there, why choose silat? I'm in agreeing with you in general. Knowledge in silat come into two prongs, knows the techniques/movements and knows how to do it and perform it. The later is the hardest things to master. If you allow me to answer this questions, I'm trying to master the techniques for the love of the arts. I'm practiced and teach Shotokan Karate, Iaijutsu/Aikijutsu, and Silat everyday. I've been teaching in the last 32 years, I'm not a master, just a student of the arts. In my opinion, silat have more subtle movements and deadly. Anyone who are ever saw me doing Shotokan kata follow by Iaijutsu then my silat from can attest that I do not have a crocodile mouth and cannary ass. I choose silat as a gerak badan because I love it. I am much more supple now compared to when I was 18. Silat makes me calm inside, confident, I feel part of the earth and the sky. Silat is a treasure that I can keep digging into all my life. Silat awakens and sharpens my senses and breathing makes my remembrance of Allah more often, more concentrated. Silat is my culture and having cultural wealth is important to people from the 'Third World' living in the Global Village where money talks and people are out there taking respected names in silat as their own and misrepresenting silat to the international audience. These people are shaming our ancestors and our culture of gerak badan, regressing the higly sophisticated kebatinan to the level of cheap black-magick klenik perdukunan. I'M WAITING TO HEAR THIS FOR THE LONGEST TIME, WORD OF WISE, INDEED It is much more simple, concise, and easier to digest when one talking about silat this way. I can handle the spirituality in Silat. But that was my opinion, of course. I believe that internet forums are exactly the right place to debate things that are expressed in words like the spirituality of Cimande, for instance. There are people out there claiming to teach Cimande and the spirituality connected to it but actually they know not what they speak about says Haji Mangipin who gets really upset whenever he sees a new page on the website I am refering to. To my knowledge, the old Cimande is used to spread the Islamic faith. And all the students must took an oath for that. If the students are being told that their objective is to spread the Islamic belief, and the students accepted it. Than no one can object to it. But when someone try to hide their motives and goal, that when everything will go wrong. Just a note of warning don't believe everything you read rather take a good look and study for your-self. Warm salaams to all, Bram Amen to that or Alhamdullilah! My worthless opinon, Tristan
Sulaiman said: Ironic words considering it is YOU , Mas Tristan who have had most to say on this topic,whereas Silat Lincah, whose Master and Silat you publicly disrespected have not responded. ******************** With all do respect, YOU are the one who preach of doing silat taugh you a good deeds, be a good human being, avoid ego and pride, etc. etc. But when someone disagree with you, you are start hiding and preach religion. Cut the bullcrapt! As I had said: I have never mention about silat lincah, I had said all silat system that doing this kind of stunt need to reexamine their goal and motives. However, if the shoes fit ,wear it man! You are upset because I don't agree with your opinion and accusing me of cannot believe the video that you had shown me. YES, I do not believe it. Do you believe the Chinas movie is a real? First of all, I'm older than you , I have more experience is martial arts, and life experiences in general. It is a custom in Maly and Indonesia to respect the opinon of the elder. Where is your? I'm going to end this topic, talk is cheaps. Until you can show me the REAL things about you, your teacher and the rest of you so called pendekars. I can't wait. If you happen to be in my neighbohood, I would love to see you doing your things Finally, I'm agree to disagree with you Sulaiman, take it or leave it. Foxtrot Yankee! Tristan
Usually when people recommend something to another it is from personal experience, how can you recommend something you have never done or seen. Since the Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) recommends Silat then he must have knowledge of it or at least seen it, perhaps even practiced it. What does the martial arts and weapons in the birth place of Muhammad look like? Does the martial art resemble Silat and are there any blades there which resemble keris? because if you’re going to introduce both to Indonesia then where are you brining it from
more explanation for Mas Tristan and Narrue Salam hormat, Kakang Mas Tristan, I think the meaning is silat as martial-arts in general. I have not read the book you mention but I have heard similarities between the Spartan and the Islamic education, though I would imagine that the Spartan education was specifically to produce fighting warriors, while the Islamic education aims to realize man to his full makam as God's guardians of the Earth. Like Sulaiman said in a past post we try to emulate the Shahabi and follow Rasulullah so being a warrior is only part of the picture we need to be able to trade, build, make art, plant and nuture and so on. Sorry for confusing you when I say my teacher is Roman Catholic but learning silat has brought me closer to Islam. That is the truth. My gerak badan is taught as an ilmu gerak badan. Religion and spirituality is up to the student, our teacher teaches silat, gerak badan. However in my experience of doing this gerak badan and olah nafas I found that I became brought closer and closer to Islam particularly in the gerak-badan parts of Islam: shalat (fardu and sunnah) which suddenly began to open oceans of meaning for me. Meanings which I had no experience of prior to intensively practising the gerak badan taught to me. In daily life silat makes it easy to smile and make other people happy because I feel confident and happy in my body. Mas Tristan, you remember surviving an ambush alone and you say it is luck? Well I would say that you have prayers and tenaga dalam that protect you. The proof? You survived an ambush when all your comrades perished! Narrue please don't take me as saying that silat is from the historic Islam brought by Muhammad (s.a.w). He recomended people study it so martial arts were around at his time and Sayidina Ali has alot of sayings related to silat. The Arab influenced weapons used in Indonesian silat would be some types of pedang sabet and the jambeya, which is like a huge kerambit. Most silat in Indonesia especially those originating in the island of Jawa may it be the West Centre or East even till Madura, do not use the keris as a weapon. Warm salaams to all, Bram
I have difficulty in believing this, where did Muhammad observe Silat for example and if it was thought to be so important then why it is not mentioned in the Quran?
I've read quite a lot about the legendary Wali Songo who are assumed to be the main and first people to have spread the Islamic faith in the Indonesian archipelo. Either you consider silat (in it's oldest form) to be not older than about 500 years or you can not consider Silat a predominantly Islam thing. The activities of the Wali Songo are supposed to have started around the 15th century if I'm correct, quite a few centuries after the profet was around. Either way silat will have been influenced by the Islam faith for at least 500 years, that unavoidable I would say. So is it strange that you'll see the use of arabic weapons next to Hindu weapons? Is it strange that certain, maybe/probably even the majority of the guru2, have incorporated their religious beliefs over the centuries. Likewise there are older aspects of pre-islam faith that are still present in the Indonesian culture and therefore it's Islamic faith that are not found in other parts of the Islamic world, like animism and kebatinan. Aren't there Islam purist (Christian purist alike) who will strongly disapprove of certain Indonesian cultural aspects that have their roots in ancient animism and kebatinan. They will probably not recognize these as part of their religion. Pekir
I would have thought that Slat is much older then 500 years old and therefore pre date the arrival of the Wali in Indonesia. To my knowledge none of the Wali were martial artists so they could not have introduced silat into Indonesia. The Wali were spiritual teachers and also knowledgeable in Alchemy. I have no problem conceiving that they did introduce spiritual teachings and even internal arts as they were clearly qualified to do so. Having said that I would have imagined that such internal arts would have been present with the Indonesian long before the Wali set foot in Indonesia, the Indian teachings would have seen to that. Whilst the Wali may have tolerated and allowed Silat to continue I don’t think it has anything to do with the Wali or Islam in terms of origin. What do the Hindu population of Indonesia have to say about this, do they also credit Silat as a Muslim invention? In terms of Silat the only connection I have ever heard of the wali and silat are the wali Suci of Java however I don’t know much about them.
'Silat' is sometimes used as generic term for 'martial arts' I believe Kiai Carita was using the term 'silat' as a generic term meaning 'martial arts' or 'fighting arts' as it is often used in Indonesia, irrespective of where it came from. (In my village in the old days, if someone was describing a martial art he'd seen, he'd have described it a 'silat' whether or not it was actually Pencak Silat. I still lump them all together as silat when I'm talking about martial arts too ). e.g Silate wong Cino, silate wong Jowo, silate wong Nippon, silate wong Londo, silate wong Amrika (which would also be silate wong Londo ), silate wong India, wong Arab, etc. etc. etc Salam P.S. I think the Wali would probably have had no problems at all with silat and not merely 'tolerated' it! Sunan Kalijaga was a pesilat to my knowledge.
Para Wali Narrue, The Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) fought in battles using stones, arrows, spears and swords since he was a child. It might have not been silat like you understand silat now ( a Malay martial art) but it was an art, and it was martial and thus, in the Indonesian language it can be called silat. And war especially fighting with swords is mentioned in the Qur'an. If you think that amongst the Waliullah in Jawa were no martial artists then you have your information incomplete. Sunan Bonang, Sunan Kalijaga, Sunan Giri Prapen, and others were martial artists. Sunan Gunung Jati in Cirebon has left us hundreds of debus equipment in the Kraton Kasepuhan in Cirebon. Where did you learn that the Wali were alchemists? As far as I know I am the only writer to ever put forth that hypotheses. Warm salaams to all, Bram
