Shinobi Soldiers

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Sandstorm, Mar 15, 2010.

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  1. kouryuu

    kouryuu Kouryuu

    Very revealing that little mistake wasn't it Nutjob:cool:
     
  2. Arteanor

    Arteanor Valued Member

    and so you assumed that i had just sat down to this issue? ah right, your a MAP user, that means you assume whatever you makes you feel good, and ignore all those pesky facts...

    and his proof is in the shoninki, the bansenshukai, the ninpiden... and i will concede that proof is too strong a word for the entire lack of evidence for the claims of ninja martial arts... but in the absence of any evidence for and despite a clear selection of material on the subject, saying "no evidence" doesn't seem to clue in to you fellows.

    my first YT comment from Rhade ( my email is removed)

    to Arteanor
    date Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:06 AM
    subject Reply from RhadeConstantine on "Karate Vs Ninjitsu"
    mailed-by youtube.com
    signed-by youtube.com

    do you all leap before looking like this? too easy.
     
  3. Ace of Clubs

    Ace of Clubs Banned Banned

    I don't even know what you are talking about. Can you please, for the good of everyone, spell out what you mean in simple terms.
     
  4. Nutjob

    Nutjob Jimmy Tarbuck

    Well considering you only posted first yesterday on the issue my assumptions are correct, you said earlier you have asked us for months, could you please explain this line as there is a huge difference between Sunday and months ago, also its against TOS to have dual accounts.

    These documents have been around from a long time, he's not bringing up anything new, its just self indulgencejust like his internet profile.
     
  5. Manga

    Manga Moved On

    Artexed Ceiling said - "so how about i level it again here, since i have asked you for months"

    Shot yourself in the foot there didn't you Mr Cummins :cool:

    Seriously, attempting to read your quoting style makes it impossible to address your points. Well I say address, they've already been addressed many times through the thread. I'd reiterate some of them but people have been doing it already and you've continually ignored the points.

    The facts are simple. Antony Cummins has made a whole swathe of claims about his personal training background which have been proven false. That in itself speaks volumes about how trustworthy a character he is.

    Antony Cummins has plagiarised much of the material in his "Shinobi Soldiers" book. This has been proven throughout this thread. Even in his book on Hattori Hanzo, he admits that his research methodology was to search the internet.

    Incidentally, you asked somewhere back there in the soup about wanting to see the bibliography in his "Shinobi Soldiers" book. There isn't one. There is no reference section either and no citations of any kind. He is therefore claiming this work as his own, a claim we now know and have proven to be false.

    These things by themselves are enough to question the value of any work by Antony Cummins. He is an untrustworthy researcher, willing to plagiarise the work of others and to openly lie about his background in order to validate his position as an author. He lacks the academic skills and background to undertake a translation of this kind and attacks those who actually do possess such skills and background.

    He needs to shut up and train instead of attempting to live out his fantasy life of being the only true ninja.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 12, 2010
  6. Fudo-shin

    Fudo-shin Valued Member

    Mr.Cummins and Arteanor are not the same person, I have video proof of the two here

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPA7STwntqE"]YouTube- Burl Ives hosts Hollywood Palace (4 of 5)[/ame]
     
  7. Arteanor

    Arteanor Valued Member

    so you are going to report me because you didn't read that it was a comment on my YouTube account? i thought manga was arguing that you guys were on the ball with the conversation up until now, i was mentioned on page 1.... seems you don't read so good over here.

    i also think its odd that you threaten me with TOS, but break it to make personal attacks in direct opposition to the rules of this section of the forum.

    and yet the VAST majority of people remain ignorant of them, and the information therein, wouldn't a legitimate practitioner of ninjutsu want his students to research the historical practices of their art? even takamatsu said ( and i recall seeing it translated 3 different ways, so by no means a direct quote.) 'never stop studying'
     
  8. Nutjob

    Nutjob Jimmy Tarbuck

    No sorry i didnt because you have not stated that in your posts above, please show the post for clarification.

    please quote my personal attack on you for clarification.


    Climb castle walls? make bombs? cool, we now have a new version of terrorists..:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
  9. RhadeConstantin

    RhadeConstantin King of Badasses

    sure.
    a baseless personal attack. there you go mate.

    No. this is what Cummin's said

    This was in response to criticism of his false personal claims. I didn't choose his position for him. He obviously thinks that because he can ask questions from the shoninki about the moon mansions he's qualified to write on it.


    you know what. you're right. What does don roley knowing about moon mansions have to do with Antony Cummin's lies? if he didn't know about them would it mean that Cummin's isn't lying?


    You obviously do not pay attention. This is not to do with the scrolls. this is about his running a martial art class based on false, non existent credentials. Also Antony claimed the this mysterious lakeside teacher, Ste Powell was a member of the amatsu, they've never heard of him. you're argument is illogical.

    his character has nothing to do what was written before his birth is correct. The problem is with his interpreting and writing about it. Nice strawman though. And I did take the specific issue to him. he called me a homosexual for my pains. what a reasonable person. and I wasn't aware that saying an author is bad because he plagiarised, exaggerated and outright lied is faulty logic. I had put up screenshots of my YT inbox up here but the mod's removed it. quite a few people saw it though.


    Antony himself was asked to point out the page number of his book which says he has permission from Mr. Francois Lepine and Mr. Don Cunningham. Initally Antony claimed that plagiarism doesn't extend to pictures. When proved wrong he changed his story saying he got permission.but nevertheless refuses to provide letters of permission or point out the page number of his book which addresses said issue. Also letters of permission are real proof that count. Bibliography doesn't since you have no way of knowing whether the work is included in the bibliography with the actual permission of the owner of the information or not.

    unfortunately MAP's ToS do not allow people to post private communication however I've had a similar conversation with Antony in the past which I did. post. it was removed and the mods politely informed me that doing so again would result in a 3 day ban.


    dude, his website markets him as a martial art instructor and he even runs a school named the dignity of flapping bird's or something along those lines. please get your facts right before posting, my friend.

    a not too convincing strawman my friend. who wrote what and when has nothing to do with antony's lies.

    I said

    arty says
    jealous? after seeing what a fool antony's made of himself definitely not. Also this does nothing to hide the fact that you have no answer to what ive said so have resorted to calling me jealous.

    cue theatrical sigh..no he has not read the scrolls. see this is exactly the kind of lies I'm talking bout. who knows how many people he's fooled like this? he can't read, write or understand Japanese at all. the only knowledge he has of japanese is what little his wife taught him and he admits he does not understand ordinary conversational japanese.

    This isn't about citing the source. it's about him not having the permission to use it. if I write an eight harry potter book and include the first seven in my bibliography it doesnt mean J K Rowling isn't going to sue me.

    No. the reason he's in charge of the process is because it was his idea. not because he has some special knowledge or skill. he does not understand japanese. he does not understand japanese culture. he has no knowledge of ninjutsu at all and even his english is terrible. this is not libel and I have not seen Manga say anything that counts as libel. when she said that Antony plagiarised pictures,she provided pictures, when we said there is no Ste Powell with the amatsu she cited the list of real amatsu practitioners that the amatsu themselves have put up. When I said Antony launched into a personal attack I provided screenshots. Not a single statement against antony has been made so far which has not been supported by evidence.

    his information isn't wrong? on what basis do you say this? I say his information is wrong because
    1) He plagiarised from a known fraud

    2) His chief Japanese liason, someone called Nakashima whom Antony claims is the leading authority on ninjutsu in Japan ( that's a first, nobody before Antony called him that.) is infact a little known man known as Atsumi Nakashima who has a lot of legitimacy issue's of his own and is the head of a small time unrecognised splinter group from a koryu school.


    This does not have anything to do about his series, it's about his martial art school named the dignity of flying birds.


    sure here you go.


     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2010
  10. Manga

    Manga Moved On

    Rhade Constantin said - "2) His chief Japanese liason, someone called Nakashima whom Antony claims is the leading authority on ninjutsu in Japan ( that's a first, nobody before Antony called him that.) is infact a little known man known as Atsumi Nakashima who has a lot of legitimacy issue's of his own and is the head of a small time unrecognised splinter group from a koryu school."

    I have Nakashima Atsumi's book "Ninjutsu Hiden no Sho" right here in front of me. On page 133 we have an image of a straight ninja sword (忍者刀). Now I'm the first to admit that my Japanese language skills are less than stellar so I'm not going to rush into providing a potentially bad translation. It's worth noting too that page 173 shows unarmed techniques and page 172 talks about kenjutsu, taijutsu/jujutsu and bojutsu in ninjutsu densho. So prima facie it would appear that Mr Cummins' own source is saying things contrary to his own claims. However take this paragraph with a healthy dose of salt (not exceeding RDA) until I can have the translation verified. Does anyone else have a copy to hand? I can email a scan of the page in question if necessary.

    See, I know the limits of my Japanese translation skills. Can Mr Cummins say the same?
     
  11. Danny1415

    Danny1415 Valued Member

    Could e-mail me a scan of the page? I'd be interested in reading it.
     
  12. Manga

    Manga Moved On

    PM me your email address :cool:
     
  13. Manga

    Manga Moved On

    Also please note that I've started a new thread, one with the specific topic of Antony Cummins' background and eligibility to write and say the things he does. That way, he and his sockpuppets can't keep claiming we're going off topic :cool:
     
  14. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Isn't Cummins a internal combustion engine that blows out a lot of foul smoke?

    [​IMG]
     
  15. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    the "Saga" continues. :rolleyes:
     
  16. Muawijhe

    Muawijhe Dreams of Madness

    Arteanor, I'm just curious as to what your stake is in Mr. Cummins' character. As in, what do you have to gain from proving his claims and debunking those of the MAPers? Why are you championing Mr. Cummins' cause?

    Also, what do you intend to accomplish by coming on here and saying what you say in the way you say (regardless of how biased or not some here may be)? It is the internet, afterall.

    No offense implied, just curious as to your motivations. Seems quite the up-hill struggle for someone without a vested interest.

    And to share my motivations, as would only be fair, I'll say that I'm in this conversation to glean more information about Mr. Cummins. I intend to buy and read his book, with as much of an open mind as I can muster. However, some of the points raised here in relation to Mr. Cummins ability (or lack thereof) to properly translate and comment on the Shoninki seem to have merit.

    Thanks. :hat:
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2010
  17. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Arteanor,

    I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on my points in post 737.
     
  18. Arteanor

    Arteanor Valued Member

    Firstly, i am not antony cummins, i find it funny how if i person misinterprets something it becomes ninja world "fact" ( okuse and his jo/chu/ge/nin).

    check my ip if you want. i am sure you can tell the difference between one from canada and the UK.


    you dont seem to be listening, i make no excuse, explanation, or defense for ANY of antony's actions. i DO defend his research from claims using fallacious logic. the 2 are NOT the same thing, to continue to misrepresent me in such a manner is intentionally dishonest. but we knew you knew that already didn't we?


    that seems highly unlikely, i also did not see mention of this in the discussion could u throw me a post #?


    i don't recall him ever claiming to be a ninja, or to know ninjutsu. and "shut up and train" is the mentality of someone who wouldnt post for 50 pages... dont be so hypocritical, the same could be said to you.

    i have seen repeated claims of things, and no evidence to speak of, and if what you say about the book is true ( reference free) then i have no wish to support him by purchasing one.
    i already said, i make no excuses for the man. i just hate to see ANYONE get browbeat with fallacious logic.

    if he is sooooo wrong, why not focus on his errors and debunk his claims with your own evidence?
     
  19. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Bloody hell say his name and he appears :D :D
     
  20. Nutjob

    Nutjob Jimmy Tarbuck

    Jessica Simpson....didnt see to work for me when i say it...
     
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