Shinobi Soldiers

Also, while you're feeling talkative Mr Cummins, can you please tell us just when you were out in Japan training with both Hatsumi sensei and Tanemura sensei? Feel free to post photos

Also, just who is it you're training with these days?

If you have a minute that is

 

I'm looking forward to seeing how this discussion progresses, particularly because a while ago I started a thread in this forum (admittedly to wind a few people up, but with some serious points also) about why I found it hard to take Ninjutsu seriously because of what I perceived to be Westerners taking the roles of ninjas too seriously. I have since changed my mind about the art and hope to practice it some day.

However, in that thread a lot of people told me that Ninjutsu isn't a martial art. Yet here is Antony saying the same and people are like, "What he say?" He has explained his point of view, so I'd like to see some responses from established members in the Ninjutsu community.

Just hope this doesn't turn into another flame war because people don't like someone else's opinion.

 

I don't think the whole "Ninjutsu" isn't a martial art thing is that big a deal to be honest.

It all comes down to what you define as a "martial art" how granular do you want to go? I always think that when looking at Japan it is maybe best to look at skill sets and how they function and have developed on a ryu-ha by ryu-ha basis.

What do you class as a martial art?

A systemized set of sepcific skills directly related to physical combat?

Or the wider skills and techniques of war as a whole?

Battlefield medicine, supply of equipment in wartime, communications on the battlefield? Are these arts of war?

 

Hello Mr Cummins,

Congratulations on your forthcoming book. I wish you well with it.

Could I ask you to clarify what Mr Otake said about ninjutsu not being a martial art? Was he speaking to you in English or Japanese? If Japanese, what was the precise word he used when explaining what ninjutsu was not? For example, did he say it wasn't 'bujutsu'? 'Bugei'? 'Heiho'?

Good luck in your ongoing reseasrch (and good luck with the MAPers!).

 

Ello again.

Would you mind clarifying who you are talking about in the above quote.
Bold emphasis mine.

As for Ninjutsu being or not being an MA well following on from my previous post is it not a matter of perspective?

Ninjutsu = skills used for war/in wartime

Martial art = arts/skills of war

Ninjutsu = Martial art

Now if you want to look at the probability of independent ryu-ha which exclusively focused on the skill sets often defined as Ninjutsu having existed, well that is a different thing, IMO.

Then of course we have a related if somewhat separate issue of the likelihood of such ryu-ha still being extant.

Maybe you should clarify how you are defining a martial art and why you are using that definition, where is it from, what is it based on, is it peculiar to yourself or is it a more generally accepted definition.....see where I'm going?

Also are you making distinctions between a ryu-ha which teaches a certain skills and those skills in a more general sense ?

You sort of seem to be going Togakure-ryu = Ninjutsu + Ninjutsu is not an MA = Togakure-ryu can't exist ++?????++................ Out of Cheese Error. Redo From Start...........+++ Divide By Cucumber Error. Please Reinstall Universe And Reboot +++

 

yup...like normal paper, but with news printed on them

 

or with fish and chips in....

 

I am just going to deal with the above.

The interesting thing is that you are trying to give legitimacy to your translation into English based on forwards by people who themselves do not read English. So they really do not have any idea if it is good or not.

I am willing to bet that it is not so great based on your limited knowledge and skill with the language and the background. You really do not have much in the terms of knowledge to know the significance of a lot of what you are looking at.

I am putting out parts of the Shoninki every month in my newsletter. I am finding that for every sentence I have to put in about three to explain the story behind the text and the important parts that might be overlooked.

Looking at your history it seems clear that you have cut quiet a few corners to promote yourself. That does not bode well. I personally would prefer a translating by someone who tries to put more into knowing the subject matter than you and does things like this as a by product of years of study rather than trying to jump into translating a 17th century work when you can't even read a modern Japanese newspaper.

 

Look, let's be honest about Mr Cummins' intentions here.

He wants you to buy his books.

He wants you to invite him down to your class so he can make capital on how he is being invited round to spread his unique knowledge.

Most of all he wants you to buy his oh so awesome umbrella.

http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news-features/7/business-news/24286/brolly-good-idea

http://www.justin-case.org.uk/

Now that we've got your free advertising out of the way for you Anthony, perhaps you'll now get round to actually backing up your claims and answering the reasonable questions being asked of you?

Oh, and FYI, consider this the warm up :hat:

 

Dean Winchester said - "Out of Cheese Error. Redo From Start...........+++ Divide By Cucumber Error."

+++MELON+++MELON+++MELON+++

 

Yeah thought of putting in water melon but I was worried it would summon Ben Cole and I don't have my +5 protection against magic balls scroll to hand I'm afraid.

 

You know who else liked watermelon?




Hitler

 

Ok I have to ask put your hand up,

Who is "bai mai buk! free brolly!"

pmsl

 

Like you need to ask :hat:

O HAI U LIEK BUK? PLZ BAI KTHX

 

You know who else wrote a book?




Hitler

 

Ok ok this caught my eye Ninpei and I would like some feed back.

Not going into it too much but wouldn't mind you giving me your reasons.

http://www.woma.tv/movies/237/chapter-18---the-true-definition-of-a-lock.html?canonical=true

Why oh why have you tried to over complicate what is in essence a basic concept?

Please note I'm deliberately trying not to jump to the conclusion that it's deliberately for selling your products, so that you appear to have something new to offer.

 

Don't see Chris Roworth on it?

 

Hi Manga,

Rather than choke any useful discussion that might get done here with multiposting this up to megathead proportions why not just use the edit function to continuously add your insights as they occur to you?

Just this one time? K? Thnx by.

 

adouglasmhor said - "Don't see Chris Roworth on it?"

Nor Peter King or Bill Doolan. However Dennis Bartram is listed and so I'd expect to see this "Ste Powel" listed also as there seems to be an implied connection. I'm waiting for Mr Cummins to get back to us on that one.

 

JamesWhelan said - "Hi Manga,

Rather than choke any useful discussion that might get done here with multiposting this up to megathead proportions why not just use the edit function to continuously add your insights as they occur to you?

Just this one time? K? Thnx by."

I'll take it under advisement. Thanks for your time. Sorry to distract you from the contributions you were making. I'll keep quiet now and leave you to it