Shinobi Soldiers

That would be the best way for laymen to read it, so I look forward to the first installment.

 

Out of curiosity, are you translating this from modern Japanese?

 

did I hear that dude correctly, saying that ninjutsu is not a martial art?

 

I am going from two modern Japanese versions and from the original.

 

I think what he's saying is that the term itself represents the specific techniques with regard to spying, strategy, etc... whereas for the "martial art" portion, the student would already have learned these, or be learning them separately.

It seems a reasonable conclusion,(though I'll have to take his word on the content of the books), but I don't think it unreasonable to assume that there would be some set of techniques specifically regarding escape and evasion.

What would you take for a copy of those?

 

Drop me a line, be of good moral stature, a current Bujinkan member and promise to buy me a beer sometime in the future.

Note- what kind of site doesn't have any smilies drinking beer?

 

He seems to be claiming that the bujinkan isnt ninjutsu, but then setting up his own style based on it. He also seems to be hero worshiping 'Yoshinori Kono' quite a bit,
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdMz94v01bk"]YouTube- The Greatest Martial Artist of Our Time? Yoshinori Kono[/ame]

edit found his complete dvd here:

http://www.woma.tv/search/for/video.html?search_query=antony+cummins

Does anyone know if he still has a teacher?

 

Well, technically, it isn't. Though more specifically, he's saying that Togakure Ryu can't be Ninjutsu because he's read a few scrolls that don't show fighting techniques, therefore Ninjutsu doesn't deal with fighting. Everything I've heard or seen from this guy is exactly that. Him explaining technicalities of classification while simultaneously acting scholarly and offending any decent person's sense of dojo fashion.

 

I dont know why hes making all the fuss though, maybe he got to japan, realised the 'ninja' thing wasnt 100% accurate, and then flounced off with his ball.

 

Enter the Heretic!
Yes, its me, Antony Cummins, the one you all seem to have so much to say about! I have decided to join you and at least put my point across? Let me first say that when this thread started people commented on what I said, now you seem to be all making it up and putting words in my mouth?

Statements:
I have never said that the Bujinkan is 100% fake, I said after all the evidence, the three schools of ninjutsu appear to be “improbable”. You have commented many times, maybe you should watch this video, this is what I REALLY said.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ke-3DSYxte4"]YouTube- Historical Methodology in relation to Ninjutsu[/ame]

I looked at your thread and this is the main conclusion:
• Antony is wrong and knows nothing, who is he, he knows nothing about ninjutsu.
These are the reasons you gave for why my research is incorrect:
• I do not like his hair cut
• He went to Japan and watched
• He can’t speak fluent Japanese
• I do not like his taijutsu
• He has a northern accent.

Out of all my points discussed, people said that they were worthless and wrong and that the research was bad. Can you guess how many examples of where my research was wrong were displayed, how many people gave a valid point and pointed out where any of my research was wrong?
• NONE!

There is one reason you are all angry with me, I said one sentence and you all went up the wall:
• Ninjutsu is not a martial art
I have put 50 videos on you tube, many on ninjutsu and many with info from the original manuals. But which one did you jump on? Ninjutsu is not a martial art. Because of this all my info is wrong?

I will not go through and address all the points as most of them are just base insults and do not really say why my research is not needed. Instead I would like to ask a list of questions and I would like you to answer them with honesty? I will number the questions so that you can reply and just same “question number.”

1) Do you know that my opinions about ninjutsu as a martial art are not only mine. I share the same opinion as the Iga Ueno museum, most Japanese researchers, the head teacher of the Katori Shinto Ryu (who personally told me ninjutsu is not a martial art) and Kawakami (not that I support him or his school yet). Which means you would be going against the only fully recognised teacher of ninjutsu from an authenticated and possibly the oldest Ryu in Japan, that is a bold statement.
2) If I said “I have read the scrolls and they support the Togakure” would you still think all of my work was bad, or would this thread say something different?
3) How do you account for: none of the manuals telling of a ninja style of fighting, none of the oral traditions, none of the external references and even the head of Katori Shinto ryu saying it is not, can you tell me how out of all the masses of info there is not a single (NOT ONE!) piece of evidence for ninjutsu as a martial art? And in answer to this question I will not accept “hatsumi says so, or he has secret scrolls!”
4) Have any of you ever seen the Togakure scrolls? I do not mean any scroll Hatsumi possesses, I mean one that says it is of Togakure lineage and did you see the date? (I have seen many and have them translated, no ninpo taijutsu anywhere)
5) People have stated my translation will be no good: A) have you seen it? If it is no good, then how did it get published by Tuttle?(coming soon), how is it forwarded by the head teacher of the Katori Shinto Ryu, who has been awarded by the Japanese emperor and the above points, how did I get a forward by Dr Nakashima Sensei, who translated it from grass style to block style. If you have all seen the translation how did I get this? Also there is a special extra bit added at the end for those who really want to know a bit more about the ninja.
6) Can any one here watch my videos about historical ninjutsu (not the martial art argument) and find any faults, all the info is from real ninja manuals, so please find a fault with it?
7) Do you know that I am open to Togakure being real and I am open to Hatsumi being linked to it. But Ninpo Taijutsu is a modern concept, does anyone have any real proof of Hatsumi’s claims or do you all simply have faith that it is. Please answer with real proof.
8) If my work is so bad you will not be reading a copy of the Shoninki in full when it is out. The Title of the book will be “The True Path of the Ninja” if you truly want to read a real manual by a real ninja?

I will leave it there people. May I say I am so disappointed by many of you here. We are all meant to be martial artists and think for ourselves. But many of you have been rude, ignorant and downright unrealistic. I am willing to put that all in the past. We as people of the “way” should know better. Would anyone like to start a fresh here and ask some real questions and see what I have to say, instead of just making it up? Will one of you take the lead?

Thanks for reading, I hope that there is a positive move now.


Respects
Antony Cummins

P.s, If anyone wants me to come to there Dojo (in the UK) and give a talk on my findings I am very willing. I will do it for nothing. I will not talk about the martial arts aspect and I will give lost of info to your students about ninjutsu in a historical context. So the offer is there!

 

p.s. this reply is on here but is also for those who have reviewed on another link.

 

Ninpei said - "Yes, its me, Antony Cummins, the one you all seem to have so much to say about!"

Welcome to the forum Mr Cummins. Without further ado, what the holy mother of all that is pure was going through your head when you gave this interview?

http://menmedia.co.uk/oldhamadvertiser/news/s/1087183_anthony_is_one_of_the_warrior_race

So just out of interest, who was it you were training with in the UK that had you training in the middle of a lake at night? Just curious

Also note my bold emphasis in the above quote

 

Incidentally, thanks for this offer...

but I'm washing my hair that week

 

Well at least well done for turning up Ninpei.

*opens a beer and waits for Don*

 

Hi Manga,
I started training in Bujinkan under Ste Powel, of the Amatsu line. It was great, no charge, no dojo, no rules, no membership. He was a 6th dan at the time. we just went into the woods, a few of us, front rooms lakes, woods, rain, snow, sunshine. it was great.

But you know what newspapers are like.

 

Ok I'll bite.

Bold emphasis is mine.

So you are saying that Katori is the only ryu-ha to have "Ninjutsu" in its curriculum?

 

OMG, this will surely be interesting...

Mr Cummins,
Can you elaborate why you think the head of Katori Shinto Ryu´s opinion is so important? (yes, i know there is supposedly a section on ninjutsu in the school). Would it not be more important what the head of Togakure Ryu has tosay you think?

Btw, care to enlighten us on how you got to translate the Shoninki?

Regards / Skuggvarg

 

Aaaand anyway!

What's all the huff about Togakure ryu?

I thought its combative waza had their roots in Koto and Gyokko-ryu?

Basically Togakure-ryu has Ninjutsu as its hyoho, for want of a better term, but this is then expressed through its waza which are derived from kosshi and koppo jutsu.


Thought this was old and generally accepted?

The ryu-ha isn't the art and the art isn't the ryu-ha.

As always I'm completely open to the fact that I may be talking complete and utter nonsense.

 

Ninpei said - "I started training in Bujinkan under Ste Powel, of the Amatsu line."

Oh? Then you could provide lots of information for us to follow up this claim. Should be easy enough to prove or disprove

Only you see there's no one of that name listed here.

http://www.amatsu.info/pages/practitioners.html

Obviously I'd appreciate your assistance in clearing up this confusion

 

I think at this point that it is only fair to warn Ninpei that Manga has made small countries and dictatorships collapse with her info gathering skills.