Shinken Taijutsu?

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by lalom, May 18, 2006.

  1. Kurokawa

    Kurokawa New Member

    "Maybe a better question is this:
    Shihan Legare has trained in the Bujinkan since the early 80's.
    Shihan Legare has been awarded the rank of 15th dan by Soke.
    Shihan Legare lives in Japan, and has done so for a couple of years.
    Shihan Legare hosted 3 different Tai Kai over the years.
    Soke has awarded Shihan Legare 4 Bujinkan medals."

    None of these are question mind you. these all point to the idea I think hes ignorent in budo. No idea if he is but he is definatly an american who can stand to profit a little off his Course videos. if you didnt like that last link try this one.

    "Shihan Phillip Legare was granted a license to teach this modern-day real combat fighting system by by Soke Hatsumi, Two tapes"

    this sounds like a training video to me
  2. saru1968

    saru1968 New Member

    You basing that statement that he is 'ignorent' because of that?

    How you trained with the chap?

    What real life experiences are you basing this opinion on?

    ps..i think you mean ignorant? how ironic..
  3. Kurokawa

    Kurokawa New Member

    I didnt read it like that until you said something, No; the posts make it seem I think hes ignorant, Im sure he is a competant fighter. thanks for poiting that out
  4. garth

    garth Valued Member

    Isn't this funny how this guy lept on the Internet regarding Mr Hayes plaque being taken down. It makes me wonder if he's just trying to destroy Mr Hayes reputation so he can jump in his shoes.

    After all is seems like he's trying to do what other Bujinkan members accuse Mr Hayes of, running a Mcdojo.

    Gary Arthur
  5. Shinkuri

    Shinkuri New Member

    You are 21 years old and you are calling Phil Legare ignorant in Budo?
    Without having trained with him?
    On a public internet forum?

    Wow. just wow. I hope you aren't Bujinkan.
  6. saru1968

    saru1968 New Member

    How about we don't got there.

    This thread is not about SKH, not about Mcdojos and I as one member of this site would be happy if the recent banter would just stop.

    Garth if you keep adding to the issue others will.

  7. Shinkuri

    Shinkuri New Member

    No not funny, Phil Legare has more martial arts and real life experience in his pinky than Steve Hayes has in his whole body, and, here is the clincher, he actually respects his teacher and trains with him weekly in Japan!

    Gary, Steve Hayes was Legare's first teacher. Do you think he might want to share this with the people on his own forum?

    It is kind of hard to run a Mcdojo from Japan. Where Phil lives. And trains. With Hatsumi sensei. unlike some people.
  8. xen

    xen insanity by design


    my bad, mis-read who was casting doubt, it doesn't seem to have come from the booj.

    deleted what i originally posted, it wasn't relevant

    Last edited: May 19, 2006
  9. James L

    James L Valued Member

    It was at a seminar. Just like a thousand other tapes from seminars.

    Kurokawa, you are insulting someone who started training in the Bujinkan before you were alive. Someone who Soke has granted the highest rank too. Someone who has had a long time relationship with Soke, who has been awarded by Soke, and who currently lives in Japan and trains with Soke on a regular basis.

    Please, tell us about YOUR background. Tell us about YOUR time in training. Tell us about YOUR relationship with Soke.

    Allow us to judge how much validity we should put on your comments about shihan Legare.

    We all await your answer. Please do not dodge my question.
  10. Kurokawa

    Kurokawa New Member

    Oh no no no, this started out as a comment, challenged , opposed and discussed. You want to make this an idealogical debate then this starts a whole new thread, my training is my senseis' this is also his personal life i would be making public so Im going to leave that out.What I do in ninjutsu has no baring on the judgment I make for my self. This was a about a "Need" for taijutsu but anything that can be packaged and put into a priced to own box makes me wonder how far this need really goes. Your suppose to take as my view not me changing every one elses.

    Edit: sorry to the author this wasnt suppose to get out of hand
    Last edited: May 19, 2006
  11. lalom

    lalom Valued Member

    My original question was about comparisons and contrast of BBT and this new Shinken Taijutsu that Legare Shihan has been given Menkyo Kaiden in from Soke. Is this an new art, or a "modernized" version of BBT? Don't see the need. Is this something that Soke has invented? Just looking for some clarification.
  12. James L

    James L Valued Member

    Fair enough. Understand however, that you cannot call into question the integrity of a man respected by many (including Soke), without having yourself opened up for inspection at the same time.

    When you fail to tell us about your experiences, and how those experiences place you in a position to comment on the integrity of a high level shihan who lives and trains in Japan, you can understand how people might not give much consideration to your thoughts.

    ..just my thoughts.
  13. Brad Ellin

    Brad Ellin Baba

    If we don't go back to the OP's question (which he restated) by this evening, my time, I'll go back and delete every post that does not have to do with the OP.

  14. Kurokawa

    Kurokawa New Member

    See look a peacful resolution stating my right to my opinion thats all I wanted, since that post youve made me reconsider my intial retort to how long I have trained vs. how much right I have to critisize my seniors.

    As to the similarities of the systems(Too answer this question properly), you need some time to lapse before you might get a definitive answer. Ive been even more confused from what I read about how this came about, they talk about real combat methods

    "Shinkengata (real combat methods) was originally developed by Takamatsu Soke and then refined by Hatsumi Soke.

    In 1997, through Menkyo Kaiden, Shinkengata was given to the Taka-Seigi Dojo Founder, Phillip Legare, for the purpose of further developing it into Shinken Taijutsu, for it to be a relevant art in the 21st century.

    ShinkenTaijutsu was formed from the Shinken of Shinkengata, the Taijutsu of the Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu and the modern applications of many combat methods."

    "real combat methods" what was it before
  15. xen

    xen insanity by design

    it seems pretty simple to me, but then, i could be way off the mark.

    The gent in question is a veteran of modern warfare.

    The soke in question is the holder of the scrolls to an ancient art which encompases the stratergies of war.

    The methods average civillian joes (like myself) need to concern ourselves with are not the same as as the compentancies required by professionals.

    They may be borne of the same roots, but they are not the same.

    Hatsumi is not a veteran a modern warfare, so who should consult when it comes to bringing the traditions he inherited in line with the advances in military technology and the specifics of out modern-style of warfare...( eg, equipment, clothing, deployment stratergies, operational scope etc) ?

    it makes sense he'd pick a guy who's been round that particular block a few times, who has been training for many years with him and who he clearly trusts to handle such methods appropriately.

    if this is a distillation/application of the principles, designed specifically for professionals, then the knowledge/training should come at a price.

    Specialist security/military consultants earn their living from instructing people in how to stay alive, this is not the same as a person teaching the general material in an open dojo (although clearly some degree of overlap is to be expected).

    i'm sure the best person to ask about this is the gent in question and if you fall into the category of being one of those with a need for such specialist training, then the material is there for you.
  16. Kurokawa

    Kurokawa New Member

    So we are talking about armed combat?

    "Hatsumi is not a veteran a modern warfare, so who should consult when it comes to bringing the traditions he inherited in line with the advances in military technology and the specifics of out modern-style of warfare...( eg, equipment, clothing, deployment stratergies, operational scope etc)"

    The main detail here is "Military Technology". when I think military I think ballistics and armour and squad based combat. They then become soldeirs in that fashion but we at this point have all been warriors up until now.
    Last edited: May 19, 2006
  17. xen

    xen insanity by design

    i dunno, you're asking the wrong person...

    i'm just guessing and using my imagination *shrugs*

    all i do know is in my daily life, i don't need specialist training, so i'll leave it to the guys who do.

    hell, trouble seems to avoid me like the plague, so the training i do already is overkill :D

    (thats no joke,one example; i was in club once, got bored coz my mates were into the crappy tunes downstairs so i went for a wander, came back half an hour or so later and they couldn't wait to tell me about the massive (ie scrum-type) brawl that kicked off on the dancefloor, (nothing to do with them) and the half dozen bouncers who got stuck in to dragging the brawlers out the fire exit, by the time i got back it was civillized and dull again *tuts* not that i'm complaining really, but you know some nights, you just want something to liven things up a bit)
  18. Kurokawa

    Kurokawa New Member

    your luck might change now that you jinxed it
  19. xen

    xen insanity by design

    nah, i'd have to be superstitious for that to happen ;)

    * salutes magpie, touches wood, checks it not the 13th, spills salt and throws it over left shoulder *

    well, no harm in being sure :D

    back on T;

    it is an interesting idea, that Hatsumi has worked to develop a 'specialist' niche within the wider art.

    and the more i think about, the more sense it makes, i mean, there is so much to work on in a 'regular' dojo context, i'm guessing (again) that these sorts of programs would cut right to the things that such people would need to supplement/build upon their existing professional training.

    it would be interesting to hear from someone with some direct experience of Shinken Taijutsu and BBT who offer some general comments on any differences in focus etc.
  20. Big M

    Big M New Member

    I think we should just train and not worry about what others are doing, train dont gossip, it does nobody any good.

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