Shin toughening

Discussion in 'Kickboxing' started by khafra, Jul 2, 2002.

  1. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    This sort of conditioning practice has been discussed on MAP many times and so far as I can remember it's always been considered nonsense.

    I'm neither an expert or a kickboxer. But consider the damage people who break blocks with their fists cause to themselves? This is basically what you're doing to your shins soft tissues if you do this sort of thing.

    Eastern martial arts are chock full of bad practices that prevail because it's the traditional way to train. That doesn't make it the correct way to train.

    Personally I'd focus on heavy bag work to build up the bone density in your shins. That will serve you far better in the longer term than killing off the nerves in your legs.
  2. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    “When considering the Karate boom around the world, I am forced to admit that Tameshiwari has played a large part in making Karate popular, as Tameshiwari generally seems very attractive to people.” -Kancho Oyama

    You will end up getting hurt badly if better skills are not developed. In other words, no amount of conditioning will ever compensate for a good method.

    Not quite sure what you are trying to say

    Not quite sure what you are trying to say
  3. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    Pretty much.

    Very true, but I don't think anyone is advocating dedicating your training time to just conditioning over developing the fundamentals that go into good technique, timing, movement (etc). If anything it's a supplemental form of training a best.

    My point was that if the karada no buki (karate term for weapons of the body) are hardened, then you are at a reduced risk of harming yourself while using them in a fight/self defence scenario. If you are aware of the fact you have hardened them through the time and dedication it takes to do this, then the chances are you will have more confidence in using them, less fear of getting hurt and should in theory use them more effectively. If this is the case then you stand a greater chance of putting down your opponent without suffering from harm - which reduces the potential for an opponent to severely injure you. But the reverse is also true - if you fear you will hurt yourself by hitting a target or if you actually do so, then subsequently the effort you put in with the same part of the body will be diminished. Which leads to holding back, less impact, less damage, higher risk of putting yourself in harm's way.

    In essence, it's the psychological aspect of "knowing" you'll be OK if you have to hit someone that helps make you a better fighter that is intertwined with fundamental technique training.

    Think of it this way, if I'm in a sparring match against a partner and try to strike his thigh with my shin bone but in the process hurt myself doing it, I'm not likely going to throw another kick with that leg or check any kicks that come my way. I am however more likely to be on the defensive and possibly over guard my sore shin as a result, which means I won't fight as effectively. If on the other hand I have the confidence and reason to believe from prior experience that throwing a kick with my shin bone won't hurt, then I am more likely to relax about it. Similarly, if I have taken the time to harden the shin bones and my opponent checks my kick, then it's not going to faze me so much that I just banged my shin bones as I'm used to it, so again I'm more likely to relax.

    Just reiterating that simply by using the heavy bags and doing padwork consistently you can develop a good amount of bone density and a greater tolerance to the pain, which is the purpose of any kind of bone conditioning in the first place.
  4. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    All not necessary because of the unlikely situation of having so much concern over toughing then technique.

    It makes people too complacent
  5. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    It's less about having concerns in regards to "toughening over technique" and more about making sure that the body's weapons are effective and usable. There is no substitute for good technique, but those techniques still need to be usable to be considered effective. Finger strikes and shin kicks are a perfect example of this.

    We used to practice hojo undo and conditioning in the Goju Ryu dojo I used to train at consistently and it does make a massive difference to the way you practice. Practitioners of Uechi Ryu, Kyokushin Karate, Iron Palm Kung Fu, Muay Thai and other various styles MA's all have similar principles about the importance of hardening the body and for good reason. I'm assuming you wouldn't tell a kyokushin karateka or a kickboxer that they shouldn't bother with hardening their bodies as it makes them complacent, especially given the prevalence of full contact sparring?

    To be honest, I've sparred with more than enough people who swear that just training the fundamentals makes them really strong and powerful in self defence or full contact sparring situations, people who often seem to believe that they don't have to worry about conditioning. Yes they often have relatively good technique, but every single time they've gotten hurt either trying to check a kick, block a punch or even just punching someone hard to the face with gloves on. Which is why I'm rather sympathetic to the cause of body conditioning. Given my own poor physical health when I first started MA, it only reinforces that idea in my eyes.

    I don't believe this is true in the slightest, but to each their own I guess.
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2013
  6. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    What people who believe in conditioning fail to understand, is that modern martial arts isnt about "toughing up" parts of the body

    Gone is the era of where martial artists had to do these things because of constant conflict. Martial artists weren't "supposed to live long"

    Unless someone is going into heavy competition, toughing such as this is not neccesary and useless creating future damage

    To paste another post which summed it up;

  7. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    I use a three foot long three inch long wooden dowl rod to strike my body with, I also use a medicine ball, it really dosent hurt that bad, I mean Im not scared of it any way. Has anyone else tried this ?
  8. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Sounds like a fetish or masochist. :)

    Aren't you worried about splinter?
  9. minamo9

    minamo9 ファイター

    Here are some ways I trained my shins:

    -Get a hard wooden stick and roll it softly from your kneecaps till your foot, then roll it back up, progressively harder. You don't even need to put on a lot of pressure, the stick will cause miniscule damage which your shins will repair again, making them harder. You can also tap lightly instead of roll, but I think this is a little less safe. It depends on your preferences though.

    Roundhouse kicks~! I like to train my shins with semi to high roundhouse kicks on the punching bag. First of all it forces me to do a good technique to even be able to hit it with the shin, and secondly I will be able to do it less hard than series of devastating low kicks. On top of that It's a balance training as well this way!
  10. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    I wonder how many here 40+ who "still" conditions their shins in said manner?
  11. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    I've tried the rod before, I'm "eh" over it. It has its' uses, but I find it's not a suitable replacement to becoming accustomed to sparring hard with a partner and the inevitable hits you're going to take.

    I haven't used the medicine ball though but I've heard lots about it.

    At home I have a bundle of bamboo canes I tie up against a tree and use for my shins (and occasionally fingers if I'm feeling masochistic). It's hard enough that it works for the shins, but flexible enough that it will actually compress with the impact and not stay rigid (like a tree would, for example). I find it works brilliantly.
  12. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    I tried that with hard sticks, rolling pins, chi shi, even a 10kg barbell with those awful metal poles in the middle. Truthfully, wasn't my cup of tea, I didn't find it really did all that much for me. But that could have just been me. Can't recommend doing that over the knees though, I stick with kneeing thai pads for my knees (I was always taught you can't do bone conditioning with joints like you would with the obvious areas).

    Oh hell yes, this is good stuff! I still throw in low kicks as well though just because the impact is much greater, but I'm in the same boat as you on this one.
  13. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    Too funny. I don't know if its helping to condition me or not but Im giving it a try.
  14. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Yeah. Almost all of us in our "beginning stages" of martial arts, "almost tried anything", stimulated by myth, fantasy, wives tales, and hearsay ;)

Share This Page