So you are quoting what source information here? Everything you say here is based on YOUR opinion - from my perspective, most of what you said is simply opinion that does not seem to hold water where I live.Maybe your experience is different, but until you can put it to verifiable test, it remains YOUR opinion. Well that's where you live and through your experience. There are seven billion people in this world, so many experiences will be different. You have made my point, my opinion is just as good as yours and vice versa, what source of information are you quoting from?? The questions Bruce asked warrant opinions, and not the same ones, don't they? The reality is, only time will provide the answer to these questions, but once again I hope that Hapkido does rise to the the top, but my hope and opinions are however different. __________________
Great post Bruce, I agree with what you have said even though I'm not a fan of Dana White and his MMA club. I think its important to bring the hardcore. Martial arts aren't for everyone, softening things up will eventually turn on you in my opinion when it comes to self defense. I hope that MMA causes traditional martial arts to step their game up.
Agreed....this may be why many accomplished MA did their training in isolation or in small groups. For myself, individual training allows me to use as much velocity and authority as I care to, but I'm something of an anomoly. Without an actual option of using one's practices in the manner intended nobody seems aware that their training has been watered down until they actually have to use it and it does not produce the desired result. I remember a seminar with LIM Hyun Su many years ago where he had the whole class doing "forearm conditioning"; something I had not seen since my earlier days with KYOKUSHIN Karate. I once tried to use half-power strikes to the torso when teaching YON MU KWAN Hapkido but was dissuaded from doing that by my teacher who was concerned what the effect would be if my students mixed with others at a seminar. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce
Is Hapkido dying out? I don't think so. Compared to just a few years ago (let's say 20), there is so much more Hapkido available out there, from brick-and-mortar schools to videos and books to seminars. Yeah, there are still people/groups out there who shouldn't be marketing what they do as "Hapkido" but nowadays it is really easy to check out instructors (especially through forums like MAP and Hapkidoforum). I like the direction some groups have taken, e.g. NKMAA has a great way of being an informal community that provides training and a measure of quality control. The Hanminjok Hapkido Association is much more open but also serves as a good umbrella to promote Hapkido and Hapkido-based arts. Now, as far as MMA goes, I actually think MMA has helped Hapkido. Everyone and their brother has access to MMA on TV, in gyms nearby, videos, or pick-up 'fight clubs'. In my opinion, the average street thug is potentially more dangerous than before... a little knowledge goes a long way and 6 months in an MMA school can make for a dangerous thug. I think this new focus on MMA has pushed some self defence minded people to seek out effective self defense schools, including Hapkido schools (I know we've picked up people for this reason). Also, I think some people who get into MMA eventually want to go "deeper" and Hapkido is a god art for that (we've picked up people this way too). Granted, I think MMA has also pushed Hapkido instructors to better what they teach as well - 30 years ago you didn't need much focus on ground defense, now you do. You also need to focus more on level of force rules, gun defense, etc nowadays too!
Hello all, New to the forum. I am young in the Hapkido field (7 years), but I am old to Taekwondo and a spectrum of other arts. I train out of Atlanta under Grandmaster Shelton R. Moreland of the IHF. And of all of my arts that I have studied, Hapkido and Taekwondo I hold the closest. I am an Army guy, and we use the Modern Army Combatives System as our fight system, and while I feel the way that I do about MMA, I will give it recognition on some of its effectiveness. But I feel that with martial arts as a whole, everything has its place, and no one art is better than the other. I think each art is perfect by design, but the questions arise when you introduce the human element which gives way to "flaws" in each arts design. I don't think Hapkido is dying out. In fact, I have done a lot of research from where it has originated from, and what it has evolved to. And I see a lot of these "New Age" arts are employing a lot of our Hapkido knowledge into their curriculum, but are calling it "self defense" or "real world combat". I also agree that MMA has made a lot of our traditional arts step up their teachings, but can we truly call that preservation of an art, if these new age arts are forcing traditions to reconsider their doctrines? I think so. You have to evolve with the tempo and the type of the fighter. I feel that Hapkido is going through a transgression phase, and is evolving into something far greater than what it has originated.
Okay, I know that I am still the new guy when it comes to Hapkido, but I have seen more Hapkido schools in my travel than I ever remember a decade or so ago. Aside from that I cannot recall seeing much of anything about it when it comes to books, but now, books, DVD's, Online training, and more and more schools do seem to be offering 'hapkido' (whether it is actually hapkido, or just what they are calling hapkido is a matter for debate). On the topic of MMA, there was comment about many Korean masters having Dan rank in multiple arts therefore they were mixed martial artists. I would agree with that statement. I have been a mixed martial artist ever since I started training in eastern martial arts, since at that time, I already had over a decade of wrestling experience. I consider myself a mixed martial artist, but do not do the sport of MMA. I think a distinction should be made. It also depends on whether or not a martial artist with multiple disciplines has learned to use them as one, transitioning effectively from skill sets from one style with those of another. From what I have seen of Hapkido, it is one of the most complete martial arts I have encountered. It has a bit of everything: standing skills, throws, joint locks and hold downs, and ground skills.
Agreed, David.....just as long as those schools continue to maintain a certain level of "grit" in their training. I'm not saying that a warm-up needs to deplete you leave you heaving and panting. But I think there needs a distinct level of physicality. For instanct, TKD routinely required breaking for advancement and I am surprised at how many schools have dropped this requirement and reduced it to an "option" or some sort of novelty. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce
MMA refers to sport...that's all as far as I know. Try telling any older martial artist with high ranks in a few arts that he is "MMA" - you might not be able to duck fast enough...
I can only agree with you on the third element, greater structure. If you believe that Myung Jae-nam's style was less demanding or less painfull you have obviously never been on the receiving end of it
I pretty much agree with Dionmj I am a 57 yo MA who has been formally training in various martial/combat disciplines since 1970. This discussion reminds me of a question my 26 yo Marine Corp son.when he was talking about interest in pursuing some sort of Martial Art or Combat Sport program. He asked why after a life time of experience in TMA I now dont recommend them except for fitness value only. I told him its like years ago there were photo processing shops all over, in pharmacies, on street corners, by mail etc. They have pretty much dried up because the digital age is here. They no longer meet the need. Whether we like it or not after the very first UFC the walls or the TMA world have started coming down. We found that what we thought were deadly systems of combat werent all that deadly. The collegiate style wrestler was more than capable of handling the advanced TMA trained opponent. The UFC was the lab and it allowed us to see what did and didnt work. Also there has been a change. In 1973 when I got my first black belt in a TMA fewer than 5% made it to black belt. The road to black belt was difficult and usually included multiple ER visits along the way. I never once saw a black belt who had a belly bigger than his chest. I didnt see any women black belts. Not to mention 10 y.o. black belts......argh..... Unfortunately people of my age were stuck with the problem of continuing with the old (which is fine for exercise and hobby but out of date for modern needs or learn new skills.) or learn new skills. Often the school owners had their schools as their sole or and very large part of their income. Not to mention the problems with ego but the financial implications could be significant. The answer seemed to be water down the standards and go for the kids and soccer moms. The fighters had to go elsewhere.
I know what you are saying, Klaas, and we have discussed this at other times. The plain fact is that teaching a traditional MA to a level where it can be used to impart debilitating or lethal force is just not something the typical (American) practitioner is going to buy into. Now if we were back in Asia during the 19th Century and every day was a fight for survival against bad men, maybe people would be more tolerant and dedicated. For instance, when TAKEDA Sokaku took-on those three bandits at a mountain pass, not much was said that one was dead and two terrible damaged when he was done. As it stands now, if a person were to inflict that sort of damage, there is a good chance that person would be in as much trouble as the attackers, political correctness being what it is. Best Wishes, Bruce
We, as modern Western civilians, cannot imagine what it is like to train with such a mind set. When I was at the IHF headquarters earlier this year some of the older Korean masters were talking about that mind set also got lost in Korea. When they started their practice back in the 60's times were much harsher. Children these days in Korea grow up very comfortably. One of them compared the current situation in countries like Russia and Brazil to the way they used to train in the 70's.
It has been one of the biggest sticking points for me as a practitioner and a teacher. My own experience has been that out in the suburbs of Chicago, the attitude regarding MA in general is one of time-structuring, exercise and hobby. Closer in towards the city, students tend to press the idea of effectiveness and S-D. I have never believed that MA ought to be a "boot-camp" or some kind of "trial-by-fire". OTOH, though, it has been very frustrating to have students report that a technique or approach is ineffective when it is executed in some limp-wristed manner. Even swordwork ran into problems when I would press the point that individuals had to use the sword as though they were really trying to injure their partner instead of just clacking sticks together. I know that a number of schools have closed down because of the Economy. I also think that some schools have closed down because students are no longer taken with the novelty of practice and have moved-on to other curiousities. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce
I started Hapkido because I had been violently attacked. I was scared and I didn't want that to happen ever again. I stayed with Hapkido because it's fun and I love it. Also I like helping people. What led you guys to Hapkido?
I don't usually talk about this very much, but suffice to say that when I came home from Overseas I was pretty messed-up. The nature of the country at the time sure as hell didn't help at all. Nothing seemed to make any sense. I didn't start in Hapkido; I started MA with Okinawan Karate. Regardless of the teacher or the style what I found is that there was pretty much a 1:1 relationship between what I put in and what I got out. There was damn little in my life for those first 10 years that I could say that about. It was a real anchor for me when there just wasn't much to grab onto. Later, when I moved back to Chicago I looked for the same sort of experience, but in an Urban area I couldn't find the same sort of clarity....at least, not until I connected with my teacher, the late KJN MYUNG Kwang Sik. Once you got him away from all the jerk-offs trying to buy rank, or push the business angle and laid your cards on the table, what you saw is what you got. I've tried to emulate him ever since. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce
