"shaping" muscles

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by Jamo2, Oct 24, 2007.

  1. Jamo2

    Jamo2 The Louie Vitton Don

    Yes yes, before i get shot, banned, hung, drawn and quartered i gotta say that i do believe and also know (or think i know) the fact that muscles are the shape they are, and can only grow or shrink.
    But i need some explaining.
    Why do people bother, and these are not just gym rats, but also well-educated people using different variations of certain exercises. For example, Incline, decline and normal bench press. Take two people, exactly the same genetics, twins in fact. One of them declines for a year, one of them inclines. Do there boobs look different after that year? If not...why bother?
    Im not talking about squat or DL variations, i understand these, but theres a lot of exercises out there and a lot of people believe different execises will bring up different results.
     
  2. Orangeseger

    Orangeseger YouTube =/= Training

    I'm trying to take this seriously....but you DID mention the words "Twins" and "boobs".... ;)



    Maybe the incline puts more work on supporting muscles....IDK, I don't really get the whole point of the variations to be honest.
     
  3. SnorriSturluson

    SnorriSturluson Valued Member

    Yes, people believe lots of silly things about exercise, but I am not sure that this one is completely wrong. Many muscles are arranged in groups or have distinct constituent parts (that's how biceps, triceps, and quads got their names). It might be possible to control shape by emphasizing exercises that, for example, stress the rear part of the deltoids over the front part.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2007
  4. g-bells

    g-bells Don't look up!

    if you want to work the area in variation switch between DB and BB and vice versa you'll get the best of both worlds
     
  5. Colucci

    Colucci My buddies call me Chris.

    Christian Thibaudeau had an article last year that talked about this exact topic. He listed a bunch of slightly-technical, sorta complicated reasons why it was possible. I'm not necessarily going to disagree with Thib, and I've even commented around here a few times about doing a 12-week cycle of only decline bench variations to build myself a set of muscley man-boobs just to prove a point.

    So I'm a bit divided. I do think that certain exercises, due to leverage dis/advantages and/or varied range of motion may encourage unique muscle growth patterns, but I'm not entirely convinced that it's because of the particular exercise chosen. I think it's due in large part to the fact that any unfamiliar exercise variation will spur new muscle growth/soreness/results when introduced into a familiar training program.

    Consistent variety in a training plan will allow for consistent results, and genetics will take it from there. If Larry Scott incorporated barbell curls, incline dumbbell curls, preacher curls, concentration curls, chin-ups, ez-bar reverse curls, hammer curls and alternating supinating dumbbell curls over the course of his training years, he'd most likely have ended up with the same fantastic biceps peaks he got through a steady diet of various types of preacher curls (or Scott curls.)
     
  6. Incredible Bulk

    Incredible Bulk Eat-Lift-Eat-Sleep-Grow

    people love to over complicate things to stroke their brusied ego because inside they know they are doing things wrong.

    "ohhh, i must try the one legged cable flys, they will really add the mass!!!"

    by sticking to the basics i passed these people long time ago, they have not changed since i started the gym and look exactly the same...i'd even go as far as saying they are lifting the same weights
     
  7. gj5940

    gj5940 Valued Member

    It's all to do with the angle of stress that you feel the muscle working at, for example incline press I never felt it hit the chest, properly until I used weights that allow me to feel the working muscle all the way through the set. Vince Gironda who trained Larry Scott worked a muscle from 4 sides upper lower inner and outer and had specific tweaks to make the exercise hit the right area, generally though people dont change their shapes in the gym cos they dont work hard enough!
     
  8. Jamo2

    Jamo2 The Louie Vitton Don


    Surely that applies to every single lift out there.
    You wont feel it if your not lifting heavy enough...... :confused:
     
  9. Incredible Bulk

    Incredible Bulk Eat-Lift-Eat-Sleep-Grow

    larry scott, born 1938.... 1965/6 Mr Olympia.

    a blast from the past... but dont forget they used to train with all kinds of weird and wonderful training programs.
    Their physique doesnt make them right though.... bodybuilders of that era got to that size or bigger by doing more/less sets, different methods.

    The only thing common was heavy weight.
     
  10. yannick35

    yannick35 Banned Banned

    Its all about genetics

    This really is sad but the thruth.

    Back in 1998 when i first started working has a computer techicien i met this guy, he was obsessed by being small and wanted to add size to is body.

    I was dieting real hard and doing everything right, but i was never able to get that fine cut up six pack, we had a small gym at that place in the basement, i told the guy that i would train with him since my gym membership had expired.

    THis guy was eating all he wanted and eating all the time we where the same age 27, i never understood why when he took off is shirt he was built like an atomic chart, he was cut up and is body did have that extra layer of fat and water that most people have, he was naturally dry.

    No matter what he did i never could gain weight, and no matter what i did i could never get has cut up has he was.

    People can still make some good gains if they train right and eat right but we do have our limitations.
     
  11. Incredible Bulk

    Incredible Bulk Eat-Lift-Eat-Sleep-Grow

    its so so so sooooo simple, he didnt eat enough...

    'hardgainers' have such a hard time as they think they are eating a lot but are not full stop otherwise they woudl be gaining weight.
    There is no secret calorie dump valve that hardgainers have that the rest of the world dont... they just have a 'in the box' prespective of what they are eating
     
  12. mai tai

    mai tai Valued Member

    im not sure why everyone makes this soo hard.

    secret to making gains.....consistancy(keep going so three week layoffs) and intensity

    forget about isolation stuff

    large big compound movements....heavy weight

    10 sets a day

    my sample leg day

    squat 225 x 10
    315 x8
    405 x 5
    455 x2

    stiff leg dead lifts
    135 x 10
    225 x 8
    315 x 5
    405x2

    toe raisers 2 sets 225 x 20

    done

    nutritons

    another thing people make way to complicated

    get 1 gram of protien per pound that you weigh.

    eat a different vegtiable with each meal.
    snack on a fruit during the day

    take a multivitamin.....just to be sure ...a cheep walart one will work.


    eat some carbs...if you start getting porky....eat less

    if you start getting to lean ...eat more
     
  13. yannick35

    yannick35 Banned Banned

    Yes but i never got cut up like he was, after low carbing and tones of cardio and diet and fat burners.
     
  14. Tartovski

    Tartovski Valued Member

    Yet oddly you are advocating doing four sets per muscle group?

    If it's all about intensity, why not cut all that out and do one big workout set of the highest weight you can?
    see: http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/LowVolumeTraining.html
     
  15. TheCount

    TheCount Happiness is a mindset

    Doing variations can hit differing sections of muscles, change the biomechanics of the movement making it more challenging ... and also you would get bored out of your skull doing the same thing again, and again, and again, and again...

    In the end incline decline and flat bench are all compound movements, I would be inclined (no pun intended) to say incline bench hits the anterior deltoits more and decline hits the bottom corners of the chest more - but that is just me.

    There is no strict benefit or disbenefit from exercising in this fashion using different variations - it is simply a matter of preference.

    As for the hitting the chest thing - I can identify with this. Doing archery, if my front arm is straight I can't feel my back working, if it has a slight bend it moves fine. Similarly with pressups - I tend to feel them more in the right shoulder than the right chest, less in the left chest than in that shoulder. I have to vary matters to make sure I'm itting the right place.
     
  16. mai tai

    mai tai Valued Member


    if you notice the first two sets are more or less warmup...maybe hard warm ups but surely not that bad

    as far as one real hard set

    two problems

    one if you look at my workout....its alot of weight...i dont feel real confortable just throwing 400 on my back withiut some kinda warm up and build up.....not just for the muscle but to get used to the form


    but the real problem is few people...myself included..... can push there self all out on one set......for this to work all out has to be nothing lesft drag one the floor, balls to the wall out.

    plus do you really want to go to complete failure with a heavy squat
     
  17. yannick35

    yannick35 Banned Banned

    Building muscle is a lot harder then what people think, at first its very easy but has the years pass by and if you are natural bodybuilder you need to change things all the time.
     
  18. Incredible Bulk

    Incredible Bulk Eat-Lift-Eat-Sleep-Grow

    i agree 110%

    otherwise everyone would be walking round with the body of their dreams...
     
  19. TheCount

    TheCount Happiness is a mindset

    Question in basic mathematics. One set as hard as you can get: thats 100% effort. What about 3 or 4 sets of 'only' 80%, thats 240% or 320% respectively.

    Which is more intense ?
     
  20. Gary

    Gary Vs The Irresistible Farce Supporter

    Basic maths doesn't work for complex problems, if it did we'd all be rocket surgeons!
     

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