Hi James, I will try to be very clear here. GM Seo says that he and his brother GM IHS's grandfather was not a martial artist nor was he connected to the royal court in any way. I know what you have read in the forward of books, publications, and the web that was published by IHS. It is simple, SOMEONE is lying, and I totally respect your right to believe whomever you choose. Do I have an agenda? Hmmm??? I guess we both have loyalties, but that doesn't necessarily make us bad. Now, if I think that all of this royal court connection stuff is rubbish is it still possible for me to have respect for GM IHS? Of course I can! As I stayed earlier, I don't need to think these men are gods to admire them. Keep your view, it's okay.... just don't get upset if you find later in life that things are not as black and white as they may appear.
RIDDLE ME THIS: A dad and son are in a car accident and the dad dies instantly and the son gets sent to hospital... The doctors have to operate on him, but one of the doctors turns around and says, "I can't operate on him.... he's my son. " Who am I?? Things aren't always what they seem, and Koreans aren't always patient with round eyes asking worn out questions.
Haha! You are very funny!! Riddle me this: I guess all I need to do is put whatever I wish on a web site and in articles I publish and my students will believe it! Who am I?? Things aren't always as they seem, and people can make you believe anything if you are willing to believe everything you read.:woo:
When I read through these threads I am continually astounded that after all of these years people have yet to grasp a very fundamental quality of the Korean Culture. That quality is the practice of representing things so as to produce the most desirable result. A fine example of the idea is the "Veritable Record of the Yi", the national history of the Choson Dyn. In the case of this government record, the "official history" of a given king's reign was not set down until after the king had died, his record examined and all of the negative bits that might reflect badly on that king had been expunged. In the West we like to think that we deal only with the cold hard facts but there is considerable shaping that goes on there as well. Having said that, let me use another institution that I know pretty well: genealogy. Over the years I have had a chance to poke around in more than a few places and you would be amazed at how Historical circumstances can get twisted around. For instance, we Americans all revere Military heroes who are awarded our nation's highest honor: Medal of Honor.......now. You might find it interesting that during the Civil War the MOH was used to recognize a unit of Union soldiers who re-enlisted as well as the 29 or so Union soldiers who provided escort service for Lincoln's body back to Springfield, Illinois for burial. All the soldiers who received the MOH were entitled to represent that they had been awarded the highest Military recognition that the US could bestow despite the "interesting" circumstances. So... whats my point. My point is that you folks continually process this crap over and over without giving due credit to the two bits I have just identified. a.) That Korean Culture does not hold the institution of History in the same way as do Westerners. Koreans see History as far more plastic and elastic. b.) In a situation where image means much, people will represent themselves in the most flattering and forgiving light that accountability -----or the lack thereof--- will allow. They will also keep mum about any UNFLATTERING episodes such as, say, the murder of a queen, the failure of the Korean government to safe-guard its own sovereign or the need to retain foreign instructors because native instructors were not competent. How excited would YOU be to represent that you were a hereditary member of a position at court....perhaps a position associated with security for the King and his family...... and it happened that the Queen was murdered, Russian cadre and Japanese cadre had to teach your soldiers how to fight and a foreign country came in, dissolved the government and its army and took over the nation. And it all happened on your Family's watch. Think you might be a little conflicted about how to represent yourself? I now return you to our regularly scheduled madness. Best Wishes, Bruce
Are you saying that the Seo/Suh clan was responsible for the lack of protection of the Queen, if that is the case then the connection to the Royal Guard is plausible? What do you mean "regularly scheduled madness"? LOL just because someone ****ed in your cornflakes on another section in MAP doesn't mean you have to come over here and take it out on us, right?
No, Obie....not at all. What I was thinking was more along the lines of a kind of "guilt by association", as it were. Remember the case concerning JI Han Jae and the assassination of the Korean president? Ji was not involved, but the fact that he was associated with the Presidential security people in the Blue House at that time earned him time in a Korean prison and his very own "grey cloud" to carry around the rest of his life. This was more what I had in mind. BTW: C'mon O-B......I think you know I don't work like that, right? Best Wishes, Bruce
Yea, I was just busting your chops on both accounts Bruce. Just thought I'd lighten the spirit before someone else took a pot shot.
Bruce I think we all hear what you're saying but.......that makes it even more imperative to see just what the truth is. When I made the original post I partly had you in mind as, if anyone here has access to the document that was the source of the Seo information, you seemed to be the most likely person Just to repeat, the reference was given as Han,Y.K. (1992). Childbirth and longevity of a family in late Chosun Dynasty. 韓國史學論叢. 532. Anything you have access to? I suspect that genealogical listing may answer much of this puzzle
James...honest to Gawd... I really don't know where to go with this sometimes. I just got through with---count 'em---TWO threads trying convince some folks that it was at all possible that maybe---just maybe---- not all Korean Martial or Military traditions died before or during the Japanese Occupation. Sheesh. 'Course, its a given that I'm in different company so let me see what I can come up with. If memory serves UCLA has the single largest library of Korean documents outside of Korea and it would be easier to access them than the National Library in Seoul. Give me a day to poke around a bit. BTW: Have you looked to see who actually carries that journal? I GOOGLE "University Journal of Korean History" but have got about 7 recombinations. Best Wishes, Bruce
I tried Googling the apparent Korean name but got nowhere - but then my Korean language skills are nil so thats no surprise! Couldn't find anything Googling in English on the authors name, that maybe because the Journal is in Korean, or maybe its just lost in the noise of other similar names
Well....an alternate rendering would give you (South) Korean Historians Forum which apparently put out an anniversary edition. I wonder if what you are looking for might be in here? books.google.com/books/about/韓國史學論叢.html It will get you this. The date is iffy but who knows ........ Title: Korean Historians FORUM: Dr. Sun Baoji Anniversary Author Sun Baoji Anniversary FORUM issue by the Committee Publisher Knowledge Industry Press, 1988 Length 1150 pages Subjects Korea The handicap I have is that I have no way to access Korean web Browsers. I'm rather surprised some of the Korean ex-pats aren't jumping on this. Might be a great way to validate some of the claims that have been made. Wonder why its so quiet? Just a thought. Best Wishes, Bruce
