pentjak - silat Salam, Last Juli at the championships Perisai Diri I had dinner with Eddie M Nalapraya. Super to meet him as he is a legend to people in Holland. He told me some great stories on the independance struggle and all the events that took place in battle and politically. Stories I heard in school and from my parents in which he was in fact the man who created them. My head is still spinning. I was extremely honoured.... Anyways, that not what I was going to type here. What he also told me was the following: Like you mentioned before (see quote above) at some point the names where glued together. Basicalli before that Java and everything to the east was: Pentjak/Pencak, Sumatra and everything to the west: Silat. Interesting huh? And oh yes, he connected the name Pencak to the drums used in Java and the east. Jebat
Ok, I know Pencak & Silat were put together in modern times. I have heard at least 3 stories on the origins of Pencak. One it comes from 2 Chinese words, One it come from 2 Malay words and now that it comes from Mencak. I want to know how old the words Pencak & Silat are not when they were combined together as the name for the Indonesian arts and how were they originally created and what did they originally mean when they were created? Does anyone really know the answers and that has proof of their claims, NOT conjectur, NOT myths, NOT sounds like this word but facts on the origins! Sincerely, Teacher: Eddie Ivester
what jebat said already correct. in sumatra there are many words to identify pencak silat, although the most common 'sound' is silat (and its variance like silek, etc) in java, the common sound is penca'. during its spread, many area usually name the art according to the first one who brought it here, then include various indigenous martial arts which also called the same. For instance, in Ambon, the word silat is used. But i once went to east kalimantan and the people there used the word penca or pencak silat. Probably because of the many javanese who settled there. besides it would mind boggling to try to simplified what called what. Calling a Sudanese martial art 'pencak' only would probably earn you at least an angry stare. The proper equivalent would be maenpo. Another one is the MA called Ameng Timbangan, whose practicioners would refuse to identify their art as pencak or silat. the 'redefinition' of pencak as the movement and silat as the application come much later, most probably when first IPSI was formed. It is an attempt to make a meaning of the words Pencak Silat. Probably because every arts does (for instance: Karate = China Hand/Empty Hand).
To my understanding, when I am talking about pencak. The name of the MA was not invented by one person who was deep into the MA, but mainly by by-standers. The reason for this is that the MA's practitioners had their own specific name for their art (which many of them would like to keep secret). Outsiders who had no knowledge of the art could not see the difference between all those styles/MA and when they saw it they referred to it in general using a descriptive Javanese word, namely "making crazy movements and jumping around" (mencak/mancak). Of the word silat I know a little bit less than the pencak word, but if my sources are correct silat is short for "si kilat", which means like lightning. This is also very descriptive, like seeing someone who is as quick as lightning. So from the meaning of the word I would like to conclude that it was also invented by outsiders. Unless someone who knows more of the origin of the word can enlighten us in this interesting thread. I think this is also the difference with the names of other MA's, where most names were invented by insiders with a certain meaning (like karate = empty hand). Garuda...
my 2 cents Assalamu'alaikum and peace to all, It's been a while since my last contribution (if i had contributed anything anyway ) so here goes... From what i've heard, the Malaysian silat circle has differing opinions on the origins of the word 'silat'. In no particular order: 1) Silat comes from 'Silek' a Minangkabau word meaning (?) 2) Silat comes from the word 'selak' pronounced 'say lock' or to fold/to open 3) Silat comes from the word 'selak' pronounced 'sir lock' or a wood/device to lock a door 4) Silat comes from the word 'silau' or glare (i.e. glare caused by the sun) 5) Silat comes from the word 'ilat'/'elak' meaning to evade 6) Silat comes from the word 'silsilah' meaning (?) 7) Silat comes from the word 'silaturrahim' or brotherhood In the official Malay dictionary (Kamus Dewan), silat is 'sejenis seni (permainan dsb) atau kepandaian berjuang dengan menggunakan ketangkasan menyerang dan mempertahankan diri' or a type of art (game etc) or a fighting skill that uses the speed of attacking and self-defence (my poor excuse of a translation). That's all the time...for now... Peace
I've always enjoyed your contributions and been better informed for them. Silsilah meaning lineage or line? Sometimes spelled, at least in the Philippines, as Tarsilah. Used to record or trace ancestory lines to any of the royal houses of Mindanao and Sulu and to the Prophet Muhammed(s.a.w.).
“ Als-Sil Silati “ or Salasilah generally means Lineage. As claimed and published by “Pertubuhan Gerak Seni Silat ABJAD” through its book “PENGHURAIAN MISTERI ALAM MELAYU, page125 by: Ustaz Hj Ahmad Che Din” claimed that it is the root word of Silat.
Earlier in the thread pentjak silat was mentioned what about buka jalan pentjak silat ? What does buka jalan mean and what is the difference bjps and ps? THANX FOR THE INFO moe389
Peace and Blessings, Buka means open, jalan means: way, walk. Buka Jalan Pencak Silat is not Indonesian, in Indonesian it would be Pencak Silat Buka Jalan, and Buka Jalan would be the name of the style. I have only seen this silat on the web and it appears to be an uprooted Dutch silat, that is why they use the tj instead of the c and get the grammar wrong. Warm salaams to all. KC (not KTj)
I have my official Indonesian dictionary here, the Kamus Besar Bahasa Indonesia published by the Departemen Pendidikan dan Kebudayaan, Balai Pustaka. There are some interesting entries: 1. Silat means: a sport or game based on skills in attack and defence either using a blade or not. 2. Bersilat means: to play silat. 3. Pencak means: a game or skill of self defence using skills in evading blocking ect. 4. Pencak silat means: Fighting skills, an Indonesian self defence using skills of defence and attack for tournaments or fights. 5. Mencak-mencak (from the root word pencak) means: very angry like someone running amok. 6.Gayung means: a long staff used as a weapon. A mantra to kill or harm someone from a distance. 7. Bergayung means: to play gayung or to play silat. 8. Menggayung means: to strike (with a sword), to spear, to hit, to head-butt, to play foot-work in silat, to use a mantra to harm someone from a distance. 9. An other meaning (more common) of gayung is a small bucket with a handle to through water over your body in a Malay shower (mandi), or a measure (of rice, kerosene...) There is no entry for maempo or maenpo in this dictionary. The meanings of gayung other than the small bucket are new to me. Warm salaams to all, Kiai Carita
The word pencak is derived from the word mencak-mencak, which means something like "a little bit crazy jumping and dancing". Hello, So it seems at least to the educated linguist of Indonesian Bahasa that Pencak did not come from Mencak after all but Mencak came from Pencak! So I guess that blows that theory all to hell! See how we all learn when the truth is given and not conjecture of our own beliefs. Sincerely, Teacher: Eddie Ivester
Pencak was always the root for mencak-mencak Dear Teacher Eddie, and Peace to all, If you read the previous posts in this thread you would see that I said the root word is pencak. Where did you get the impression that I said the root word was mencak-mencak? I never wrote or thought that! I don't think that Garuda did either. Anyway, I hope that now we all have a clearer understanding of the words pencak and silat. One more post in this thread that we might all benefit from would be if Amirul would open his Malay dictionary once more for the words pencak and gayung / gayong and share the expanations with us all. Warm salaams, Kiai Carita
Kia, What part did I get wrong! It says Pencak is from Mencak not the other way around! I would just like people to stand up and admit when they are wrong or could be and stop all the I'm this and that so I know more then you because you are not Malay! If it's conjecture or thought to be that way then say so, don't say this is the true or only way because I'm Malay and your not. And yes that is the way many of the post have come across from you and Guruda. I can understand about passion and wanting to get things right especially when it's from your country and peoples but let's not use personal prejudice and/or conjecture over facts. Thanks, Teacher: Eddie Ivester
Hello, ICT, if you look on the first page of this thread on Kiai's first post(#8), you may notice that he himself said that Pencak is the root of Mencak-mencak. He never said otherwise. That was written 27 days ago. Someone can not admit a wrong that never happened in the first place.
Woah, an arguement on Indonesian etymology and semantics-sooner you lot than me. Let's not forget that all languages are contextual and not totally implicit. As I understand things, pencak and silat in this context are both terms for a 'system of fighting'. After WW2 these terms became combined and have since been explained, or have come to mean in western terms the same as Eddie explained earlier. I suppose anthropologists would term this diffusionalism. i.e. 'meaning' may only be explained within a cultural framework, change the framework..... As for mencak, again depending on context it is 'to get angry' or even 'to fight'. As for jumping around don't you mean 'mencolot'? Mencolot-mencolot kayak kodok gila bukan mencak-mencak kayok kodok gila and Moe389 you've been overlooked. Buka jalan means open the way.
Crucible, I was referring to what Garuda said and responding to a private e-mail Kia sent me asking me to post on here. I posted that Kia said the same thing the linguists believe and used it to show Garuda he was out numbered on his belief. The bottom line is that the origins of the words Pencak & Silat cannot be proven and the stories of how they came about are just that, stories! I try to deal in facts not conjecture or personal prejudice. When someone says it's this way or that way just because they speak the language or are of the race it evolved from does not make it true or fact. I have learned a great deal from both Kia & Garuda and value their input but I will also question anything that I feel needs to be questioned and will not blindly follow or believe something just on the principle of someone’s race or first language spoken. I like to gather evidence and then sift through it to come up with my own opinion and which is why I ask questions and why I have always said that Pencak Silat BASICALLY means and not this is the exact meaning or exact translation. Sincerely, Teacher: Eddie Ivester
With regard to healing in silat, I am not sure that all gurus must be healers too! My wifes family practice(d) a family system and her grandfather was a guru but not a healer. However, her uncle was indeed a dukun(medicine man) and a persilat but did not teach! Her uncle died a few years ago (in mysterious circumstances!) so I have yet to find out if any family members still carry on the family style. However, I suspect I will have to employ a lot of subtlety and patience and prove myself worthwhile. Not to mention all that fish, rice and sambal Selamat malam dan mimpi indah.
A complete pendekar will be 3 things; A Warrior A Priest A Healer Remeber that a Pendekar was so much more than just a silat master. They were "leaders", so to speak, of particular villages/areas, to whom people would look up to, and come with their issues. They needed to be fully complete in all these aspects.
Indeed, a pendekar was often a jago, religious leader and a healer. What I am disputing is that a pendekar must be a healer to be a true pendekar. Also the terms pendekar and guru can placed on different 'levels' depending on the area of Indonesia. In the West a pendekar is often considered to be 'higher' than a guru. This is often not the case in Indonesia. Independence and IPSI lead to a formalisation of silat. Prior to this family styles were often not freely available for anyone to learn. They were (and still are!)kept secret, passed down to those considered worthy to be bestowed with such knowledge.
