Self Defence

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by Judderman, Jan 21, 2004.

  1. Judderman

    Judderman 'Ello darlin'

    Please forgive my laziness, I haven't checked if this question has been asked already, its 5 in the morning!

    I am new to the site and although I'm still navigating my way around all the features, I was disappointed to note that the self defence/street encounter section was limited to a forum called "womens self defence" or mixed up with the general dicussions.

    If the powers that be have decided that it was important enough to assign a forum specifically to women's self defence (and important it is), would it not be also important to incorperate all aspects of defence in this section?

    At the moment it appears a seriously undervalued forum, which is a shame.

  2. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    I'm seconding Jedderman's request. I think having a self defense forum would be a great idea! Posts like Ghost Frog's Knife Defense Essay more naturally fit in that area than in the General Topics. Reality Based Self Defense is a hot topic in the Martial Arts and worth more exploration. And we definitely have the expertise on MAP to moderate it.

    I'd be happy to help sumbit a more formal request if that's what it takes.

    - Matt
  3. Judderman

    Judderman 'Ello darlin'

    Thanks Matt.

    But what to the guy's who run the site think? Any moderators have an input?

  4. Judderman

    Judderman 'Ello darlin'

    No takers? Information?

  5. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    Sigh.... I was hoping for more traction on this as well. :-(

    - Matt
  6. xubis

    xubis New Member

    I back you, would be very good as we often get the knife/gun/attackers type stuff
  7. Jim

    Jim New Member

    Sounds okay to me, but we have so many sections as it is. Do you really feel that you'd be able to contribute more to the site if there was a SD specific forum?
  8. Judderman

    Judderman 'Ello darlin'

    Thanks for the response Jim and others.

    Perhaps combining it with the existing "Women's Self Defence" might be possible?

    I feel that SD is quite unique, although it draws heavily from MA it takes it into a completely different realm, rendering many traditional concepts obsolete. I feel this important topic is easily diluted when placed into a general forum. I believe that calling a forum "Women's SD" propagates this.

    On the flipside I do appreciate that women's SD is treated slightly differently and there are often seperate issues faced by women that men probably won't face and vice versa. That said these issues are not entirely gender based. I also understand that it can be a difficult area to moderate as there are so many views and its a rapidly developing area. That said, I would cite the Knife Defense thread in the general forum as an example of some excellent defensive input.

    I suppose I should have just said, "Yes" huh? :D

  9. Judderman

    Judderman 'Ello darlin'

    Any feedback please?

  10. Judderman

    Judderman 'Ello darlin'

    I'm dragging this up again because I spend so much time trawling through the forum looking for decent information. Much of it has been lost to the every expanding general forum. Almost every style forum has had a discussion regarding the effectiveness of their style for SD/P, whereas on one hand I agree that it is useful to do this, I can see when it comes to comparing technique this can be quite insular. Even the discussions on the womens self defence forum have limitations to women.

    I still request the creation or adaptation of a forum for self defence/protection and "street" combat.

    Can anyone get back to me on this one please, so it may be discussed?
  11. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    Again, I'll throw my rather limited weight behind the idea of changing the "Women's Self Defense forum" into a "Self Defense Forum." All the reasons have been covered in previous posts.

    While there are some Self Defense issues unique to Women, the overall fact is that Women's Self Defense is a subset of a greater conversation. Judderman's right, there are many threads going on in general topics that naturally fall under the umbrella of "Self Defense."

    What I'd love to hear is a good explanation of why not to change the forum. We've presented a number of compelling arguments as to why "Self Defense." What's the other side of the coin?

    - Matt
  12. Jim

    Jim New Member

    Just wanted to let you guys know that you're not being ignored.
  13. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Indeed, the Womens Self Defence forum was put together as a result of many requests for a dedicated section by our female members.

    As I recall, they felt a dedicated section was neccessary, while many staff felt that all MA should be for self defence.

    We'll give it due consideration.
  14. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    Thanks for the response Andy (and Jim). The question of Self Defense vs. Women's Self Defense is a sticky one. Personally, it's my view that all martial arts should be for self defense. But it's also clear that many posters don't necessarily share that view. And in looking in past posts (and the development of the Modern Self Defense movement) it's becoming apparent that there is a scism forming in some areas.

    There could be an arguement that if you have a general "Self Defense" Forum, you should also have one for sparring, forms, etc. However I don't think that those other aspects are either as broad or as deep as Self Defense is/has become.

    Any way, that my 2 cents. Hopefully I don't owe you change.

    - Matt
  15. Judderman

    Judderman 'Ello darlin'

    Thanks for looking into it Andy and Jim.
  16. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Well thanks to the head up from Jim, it is now being discussed.

    There are two points to consider.

    One is the womens issue, as it was the general consensus was that their issues required seperate discussion; i.e. rape, physical strength and cream cakes etc. ;)

    The other is what you would use a general Self Defence section of the forum for?

    There are a lot of different sections of the forum as it is, but a lot of members don't seem to pay heed to which section they are posting on, with MMA/TMA issues getting mixed up with RBSD or philosophy issues (You know who you are!).
  17. Judderman

    Judderman 'Ello darlin'

    Certainly the issues that women face can differ from those that men do, although there are details that apply to both with equal importance, eg situational awareness, adreanal activity, strength/skill differences, effective targeting, law, etc. Women, generally, face a greater risk of rape/sexual assault than men, however they also face the risk of assault or robbery, not just from men but from other women. I guess there will always be the vague arguements about whether a woman can take on a man, but frankly I believe that this is a risk that just about anyone faces.

    As for the purpose of such a forum I believe its important to house valuable information in a specific area, this make life easier for those with genuine SD issues to discuss them, but also (hopefully) would prevent cross posting (as occurs between WSD and GMA forums) so anyone using this website for research would find it much easier to locate relevant information. It also gives people the chance to bounce ideas about from a wider audience (ie all styles) without being lost in the mists of the GMA forum. Although many of the style forums discuss SD issues within each style, there is always the possibility of isolation and little development.

    I agree that there does seem to be occasions when people tend to post with a "style" orientated agenda, but perhaps some rules might go some way to reducing this. One of the best comments I've come across is "Everything and nothing works". With some sensible posting :))) and moderation there can be frank discussions about not only the psychology of SD, but also the pros/cons of particular techniques when applied to real confrontations. Then people can make informed decisions about the techniques they are using instead of believing everything they are told.
  18. Jim

    Jim New Member

    I believe that there may be reason to have a distinct Self Defence forum because discussion and 'moves' can be spoken on in relation to the self defence aspects (as opposed to point scoring, etc.).

    The problem that admin faces is a bit complicated, however. If they do start the forum and no one posts anything constructive after the initial 'flurry' that usually occurs then it's been a bit pointless. Also the majority of things that you could discuss have already been mentioned in either general discussion or MMA (to name two).

    If you're thinking of the research aspect then you've got the whole world wide web to do it on. Just do a (insert prefered search engine name here) search on what you're looking for and you'll have several pages to wade through. Any more clarity then you can either PM a specific member here or post a thread in Q&A.

    Having said that, I still wouldn't mind seeing a SD forum. But I'm like that. ;)
  19. KickChick

    KickChick Valued Member

    Sorry that this thread hasn't been given enough attention by the staff (.... possibly due to the fact of upgrading many of the other MAP features :) ) ... but it has been on the list of staff discussion and now that it has been brought up yet again, we will try and come up with a resolution on this.

    All good points have been brought up.

    It is my opinion that we should include a Womens Self Defense area as a sub-forum should the decision be made to create a General Self Defense Forum.
  20. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    Hey, I resemble that last remark some times.

    First of all I agree with Kick chick that it would be a good idea to maintain a sub forum for Women's Self Defense. And there are definitely issues unique to women. But issues like physical strength isn't one of them. I think that's something that needs to be addressed in all forms of self defense. True men might be as a rule stronger, but there is not gaurentee that in a case where one is defending against another male that you are neccessarily the stronger of the two. In general, unless there are mitigating factors, attackers will typically not go after someone who looks stronger than they are.

    As far as what would be discussed, without wiseassly saying "self defense", I think this category would provide better organization for existing discussions that are already going on at MAP. As both Jim and Andy have pointed out, a lot of the RBSD tends to appear in MMA. And while RBSD tends to use MMA training methodologies, they really are two separate topics. So if nothing else it could assist from a catigorization point of view.

    And Jim, as to your question about what happens after the inital flurry of postings, I think things are business as usual. Self defense is being already discussed at MAP. I don't see that stopping. This is a little different scenario than lets say the Disabled Martal Artist forum. Not a knock on that, but it is a subset of a subset area and in being that, its highly specialized content.

    Hope this makes sense. I'll be happy to provide more rational as needed.

    - Matt

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