One of my TKD schools today had one of our second degree students teaching in place of our normal instructor, the class was ok upto a point but it soon became obviouse that all the information he was passing on was second hand and unconfirmed. Every question that was asked would be answered "well so-and-so said this...", there was a lot of confusion and whenever someone questioned the techniques they had been told, the answer to why it should be done was "because so-and-so told us to". This would seam ok, if the information was coming from a constant and reliable source, but they weren't. There where points i argreed with, points that directly contradicted what more than 1 other instructor had told me, and obviously points that went over my head as im not a black belt yet. So what are the thoughts on second hand information, should you take what you are told as gospal, should you seek confirmation, if you can't get confirmation who do you trust (is the higher grade always right?). Should BB's be making more of an effort to understand why something is done rather than just taking what they are told and going with it?
No one is always right you should always question what you are doing to a certain degree. By this i don't mean stop in the middle of every class and have a raging arguement but simply find out what works for you and what makes sense. I think if someone has attained a black belt then they really should have a better understanding of the art than most and to just pass on second hand info does seem a bit off
Craig, You've just hit on a huge pet peeve of a lot of us. Second hand information is a really dangerous thing to spread. And it's been responsible for a LOT of the incorrect information (and often Dogma) that weighs down martial artists (Traditional and Modern alike). I tihnk we've all heard people (and sometimes been guilty of it ourselves) spout off second hand facts that are wrong. The sad part is that some of the time they aren't that far or (or at least at first). But bad second hand info gets turned into even worse third hand info... and on and on (not unlike the telephone party game). Typically when I am leading class and I'm faced with those types of questions, I will give the best explanation that I can, careful not to create things out of thin air. And I will always suggest that the student asks out Sifu the question (often that's my first response). - Matt
Depends on what second hand this info is coming from. If the "so-and-so" he is quoting is the head instructor of the school then I wouldn't have a problem with it. Obviously he is just starting out instructing and if this is the case you really have to understand that teaching is extremely difficult when starting out. I was extremely nervous when I had the class one night as the head instructor was out sick. I merely ran the class as best I could but you can truly appreciate the difficulty in teaching once you do. There has to be consistency in the instruction given.... if not it tend to confuse the student. I have seen different ways to break down certain advanced kicks which are explained differently, also there may be a different ways to execute a movement in a form ... not to say one is right and the other is wrong .... sometimes it is left to the personal interpretation of each instructor.
That's the key point in all of this. And I agree that many beginning instructors can dig themselves into holes by trying to over teach. But as a rule, a school should have "one" way of teaching a technique. If that fails for an individual, then other methods should be tried. But as far as group teaching, one method for one technique. I think, as a general rule, one should only teach what they know. And if they don't know something, or a question takes the class into uncharted territory, then it's up to the instructor to steer things (either subtly or firmly) back onto ground that they have experience with. I've unfortunately seen a lot of bad information sharing by junior instructors. I fault that, to a great degree, on the senior instructor (for allowing unqualified people to teach class). The problem I have is that environment often allows for the propigation of wrong information (ie. Tai Chi is only good for health, TKD kicks were created to kick people off of horses, Karate Katas are only about kicking and punching). - Matt - Matt
Interesting thread this one. As an instructor I am teaching karate as I have learnt it from my instructor which in turn he learnt from his instructor. So I suppose you could say that I am getting second, third, fourth hand information. Where are you going to get first hand information from ? To a certain degree when a student reaches blackbelt they are automatically assumed to be able to teach. This is not the case. Knowing had to carry out a technique and knowing how to teach a technique are two completely different things. I am going to throw in another point here. I get the impression that in the east a martial arts are much more disciplined and respectful of their teachers and students do not question them as much as those in the western world. I can only go on what I have seen in documentaries. This lack of respect sort of led to the cause of a rift within the clubs that I teach in. One of the BBs felt that the karate he had done for the past 10 years was no longer any good and pretty much stated that while I was present. He then when on to teach students differently to that on which the principles of the club are based. This brings in the point that Matt has made, we have one method in which students are taught. The purpose of this is that the standard of karate is maintained at all levels. From time to time there might be slight changes made to some moves but all instructors become aware of these. What you absolutely cannot have in the same club is one instructor teaching one thing and another doing something completely different - it just does not work. Coming back to my point about instructors, it takes time and experience to be able to teach confidently. I have seen this over the last few months in one of our 2nd Dans. He started a while back just teaching juniors and building up a skill at the same time. Now he is confident enough to teach seniors including other bbs. Hope I made some sense in there... Dave
This is a good question, but in TKD its easily answered, The creator of the TKD syllabus only died 2 years ago, and had completed an encyclopedia of TKD, This may not be the place to learn TKD, it is deffinetly a good tool to check your knowledge and any queries from students. Also There are probably very lone lines that can be drawn back through perhaps over 100 instructors back to general choi, but some of general choi's students are still alive today, and one is living in the UK, i know they are not first hand information, but they and the encyclopedia probably make up the best source of information available in TKD.
We had a similar experience. A senior student would show you a few techniques when the sensei was unable to attend, only for the sensei to come the next time and tell you it was all wrong. You would waste an evening doing the technique totally wrong, not understanding why it did not work.
i would take the info in with caution but use it if i might need too. if you want you can ask your master wut this guy told you.. thats important.
